UK Independence

[Firestorm]

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/issue-briefs/economy/taxation/vat/value-added-tax-$366603.htm

From the above

In 1979, the UK had a Zero Rate, a Basic Rate of 12.5 per cent charged on "luxury" items and a reduced rate of 8 per cent charged on most other goods and services. When the Conservatives came to power that year, Chancellor Geoffrey Howe increased both of these to a single rate of 15 per cent, to partially offset the impact of large cuts to the Basic and Higher Rates of Income Tax. This was portrayed as a deliberate move aimed at shifting the burden of taxation from earnings to consumption.

 

[Rob Noxious]

I'm sure VAT was at 15% for a large proportion of the 80s too, though obviously a bit young to remember properly :)

Correct! It was about late '83-early '84. I remember because it affected the price of take-aways... (wasn't doing much cooking in 'them days')

 

[Irate Ian]

The total gross cost to the UK of EU membership in 2008 they estimate at around £65,000,000,000* - including:

£28 billion for business to comply with EU regulations,
£17 billion of additional food costs resulting from the Common Agricultural Policy
£3.3 billion - the value of the catch lost when the Common Fisheries Policy let other countries fish in our territorial waters
£14.6 billion gross paid into the EU budget and other EU funds.


It gets worse each year. Used better, this sum could transform the UK - increase pensions, recruit more doctors, nurses, teachers and police, build advanced transport systems and start paying off the national debt.



That is about £1,000 per each and every person in your household.

So for a typical family of say 4 that is £80 per week, for life.

Do we really think we can afford this massive burden ?

 

[Irate Ian]

Jease just realised our EU membership per person is three times the cost of a season ticket

 

[Irate Ian]

Sorry Ian but you are wrong, as an individual you may well have to pay duty on goods you buy and bring back to the country. As a business free trade is the norm, all freight between EC/EU countries moves free of Duty & Tax. There are certain items such as cigarettes/alcohol/coins etc which move under bond within the free trade area and the individual country's duties are added to these for retail sale.

We do indeed trade massively with other countries, but as an importer you will pay Import duty & VAT to HM Customs & Excise.

Yerrrr... but as individuals we have to pay the £1,000 tax each per year or nearly £3 per day to be in this EU club, so even less reason the individual should not have restrictions imposed at ports and airports on crossing EU borders. Or am I missing something Doh........

 

[canveyshrimper]

Yerrrr... but as individuals we have to pay the £1,000 tax each per year or nearly £3 per day to be in this EU club, so even less reason the individual should not have restrictions imposed at ports and airports on crossing EU borders. Or am I missing something Doh........

TBH I don't see the difference in paying duty on items I have purchased in say the USA or Far East.

I am no supporter of the EU as a political union or for that matter a United States of Europe, as recently demonstrated by the fragmented reaction to the banking crisis. However as a trading entity the free market is a success and the movement of freight free of duties/taxes and customs clearance is a clear benefit for importers & exporters alike.

There are clear areas of the EU such as the CAP which need a root and branch reform, sadly this is never going to happen.

 

[Irate Ian]

TBH I don't see the difference in paying duty on items I have purchased in say the USA or Far East.

I am no supporter of the EU as a political union or for that matter a United States of Europe, as recently demonstrated by the fragmented reaction to the banking crisis. However as a trading entity the free market is a success and the movement of freight free of duties/taxes and customs clearance is a clear benefit for importers & exporters alike.

There are clear areas of the EU such as the CAP which need a root and branch reform, sadly this is never going to happen.

One of the selling points was I recall being promised open borders for goods, so we could go and buy in any EU country of our choice without restriction or duties, or did I imagine or have a dream about this ?

If offered a tax rebate of £1000 per person per year [what it costs each of us] would we vote to stay in or get out ?

Whatever happended to the free vote we were also promised.

Can we all afford to retain membership of this very expensive club ?

 

[canveyshrimper]

One of the selling points was I recall being promised open borders for goods, so we could go and buy in any EU country of our choice without restriction or duties, or did I imagine or have a dream about this ?

If offered a tax rebate of £1000 per person per year [what it costs each of us] would we vote to stay in or get out ?

Whatever happended to the free vote we were also promised.

Can we all afford to retain membership of this very expensive club ?

Err, we can, read my post above. There are certain items such as alcohol, perfume, tobacco etc that will always attract duty.

I can't answer the question over the referendum promised you should ask Gordon Brown and his cohorts that one, after all they have reneged on the promise.

As a trading entity we should remain, as for political union I have my doubts.

 

[Irate Ian]

Err, we can, read my post above. There are certain items such as alcohol, perfume, tobacco etc that will always attract duty.

I can't answer the question over the referendum promised you should ask Gordon Brown and his cohorts that one, after all they have reneged on the promise.

As a trading entity we should remain, as for political union I have my doubts.

Yes but rate of tax/duty differs on the products you mention across different EU countries and the idea was to be able to buy where it is cheapest to all [not just corporate importers] and without limitation or border controls.

I get back to the question, can we all afford to be shelling out £1000 each per year toward memberhip of the EU club, which increasingly is becoming a luxury many of us simply cannot afford.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Yes but rate of tax/duty differs on the products you mention across different EU countries and the idea was to be able to buy where it is cheapest to all [not just corporate importers] and without limitation or border controls.

I get back to the question, can we all afford to be shelling out £1000 each per year toward memberhip of the EU club, which increasingly is becoming a luxury many of us simply cannot afford.

The actual rate of duty on alcohol (spirits) for instance as far as I am aware is uniform, however sales taxes, VAT etc are not, and therefore are set by the governments of the various countries.

I won't comment re "expensive membership" of the EU club as I have seen many figures mentioned in the press, on various web sites, but am actually to be convinced of the reality of these figures.

 

[Firestorm]

One of the selling points was I recall being promised open borders for goods, so we could go and buy in any EU country of our choice without restriction or duties, or did I imagine or have a dream about this ?

I recall several years ago there was a limit on the amount of fags, booze etc you could bring into the country from France etc.

Now , i believe as long as its for personal use, there isn't, hence the "booze cruises" and the increase in Britich targetted cash and carry type places close to Calais.
As for the cost of £ 1000 per person per Annum , I found this (Ok published in 2005) which indictes the cost is £120 per person PA but membership has increased our GDP by 3-5 % (35 - 60 Billion Pounds)
http://www.openeurope.org.uk/media-centre/article.aspx?newsid=436

 

[SARF]

I want to leave as a matter of principle.. I dont want non elected Europeans tellnig me what I can and cant do.. Sure fat Gordo may want an East Germany style secret police force but at least I get a chance to vote him out every 5 years.. If it costs 100 quid a head to be out then that is a small price worth paying.. Business suffocating admin is at record levels.. Euro crap.. Gorgon Brown crap.. Council crap.. all these non productive leeches getting paid good money to come up with rubbish to justify their jobs...

 

[Irate Ian]

Whatever Party offers a guranteed vote on staying or leaving the EU at the forthcoming General Election, gets my vote, whatever colour they may be.

 

[Irate Ian]

Err, we can, read my post above. There are certain items such as alcohol, perfume, tobacco etc that will always attract duty.

I can't answer the question over the referendum promised you should ask Gordon Brown and his cohorts that one, after all they have reneged on the promise.

As a trading entity we should remain, as for political union I have my doubts.

Bring on the General Election and let's see which parties offer a guranteed vote on in or out.

 

[Nobby Snide]

Bring on the General Election and let's see which parties offer a guranteed vote on in or out.

so, in theory.....

Unemployment upto 6 million
trade deficit at all time high
inflation reaches new leves
dollar equals the pound
WE LEAVE EUROPEAN UNION
curfew inplace
vat at 25%
oil and gas supplies are cut
food shortages, empty shelves

they would get your vote?

obviously, I'm taking the piass, but thats your argument simplified

obviously

 

[Slipperduke]

If we left Europe, they'd all gang up on us. Tariffs would go through the roof, no-one would buy anthing that we made, nasty stories would be leaked to their newspapers to cripple tourism and our chances of tacit support* for ill-thought-out, vainglorious military campaigns would vanish.

I hate the Belgians as much as the next man, but it's political and economic suicide to fly solo in a globalised world.




* - The French could have done all sorts of nasty things to us for getting into bed with Bush. In the end, they settled for shrugging and lighting up another Gauloise.

 

[Irate Ian]

If we left Europe, they'd all gang up on us. Tariffs would go through the roof, no-one would buy anthing that we made, nasty stories would be leaked to their newspapers to cripple tourism and our chances of tacit support* for ill-thought-out, vainglorious military campaigns would vanish.

I hate the Belgians as much as the next man, but it's political and economic suicide to fly solo in a globalised world.




* - The French could have done all sorts of nasty things to us for getting into bed with Bush. In the end, they settled for shrugging and lighting up another Gauloise.

Unlikely, as any tariffs on us would be reciprocated to them.

Why would they want to bite a hand that feeds them ?

Never have liked the fear factor argument.


The French go it alone and blockade ports to preserve their interests even whilst in the EU, so who really cares what they might or not do ?

 

[Lord Football]

Bring on the General Election and let's see which parties offer a guranteed vote on in or out.

None of them will because none of them are that stupid.

I am actually opposed absolutely to the idea of a referendum of any sort on Europe. Not because I am against democracy but because no one really understands it. The whole thing would become a media hype with the Mail, Sun et al pedalling their own Little Englander agenda.

I've read some of the comments here - I know a bit about Customs tarrifs, it was my job for a few years - that are clearly wrong and some that I am not sure about and some that I've never considered before.

Could I make an informed judgement on Europe? I don't know.

Very soon a Euro will be worth more than a Pound. At that point do the Anti Euro brigade jump ship?

K

 

[Hotman]

None of them will because none of them are that stupid.

I am actually opposed absolutely to the idea of a referendum of any sort on Europe. Not because I am against democracy but because no one really understands it. The whole thing would become a media hype with the Mail, Sun et al pedalling their own Little Englander agenda.

I've read some of the comments here - I know a bit about Customs tarrifs, it was my job for a few years - that are clearly wrong and some that I am not sure about and some that I've never considered before.

Could I make an informed judgement on Europe? I don't know.

Very soon a Euro will be worth more than a Pound. At that point do the Anti Euro brigade jump ship?

K

****ing hell i agree with boris here, most people in my eyes would not use their vote appropriately. Not saying that their vote is right or wrong, just that a little more thought needs to go into it than "i love my pound"

 

[canveyshrimper]

****ing hell i agree with boris here, most people in my eyes would not use their vote appropriately. Not saying that their vote is right or wrong, just that a little more thought needs to go into it than "i love my pound"

If there were referendum then IMO there are two distinct areas that can be argued for in or out. Those being political union as a United States of Europe, or as the original Treaty of Rome outlined a full trading union where there are no trade barriers or tariffs. I would certainly be in favour for the latter, which was what the Wilson government in the 70's offered and sold this to the electorate. The former, I would have serious doubts, I still believe in the sovereign nature of countries.

That may well be simplistic, but bear in mind Bliar promised a referndum on further political union in the New Labour Manifesto prior to the election in 2005, a promise that was promptly reneged upon by Brown and his cohorts. Lisbon a simple tidying up exercise, to quote Jim Royle, my arse!