Under 21 European Championships

[EastStandBlue]

Didn't see last night's game, but that pretty much sums up Chalobah performance against the Portuguese as well.

I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt after the Portugal game - opening games in a tournament are usually nervous affairs, Portugal were a well organised outfit and in William Carvalho they have one of the best combative midfielders in Europe at the moment, but if anything Chalobah was worse yesterday evening.

He's now a big worry for me. When he broke through Chelsea's youth system he was rightly billed as one of the next big things, but he's since been accused of contracting Chelsea-itis and not developing as he should, much like his predecessor McEachran.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Indeed, particularly from the Anti-England Brigade.


The right result tonight, but not the right performance although the game certainly wasn't helped by Sweden's one and only game plan being to frustrate England. Garbutt has no place in the side, he offers very little going forward and is very loose in possession. The contrast between the two full-backs couldn't have been starker, as I thought Jenkinson was very good throughout.

Pritchard and Lingard both look like very bright footballers, however Carroll and Chalobah in the centre of the park just doesn't work. They're both far too negative with the ball and Chalobah in particular contributed very little, instead opting to Gerrard it out of touch on a few occasions. What's Ward-Prowse doing on the bench having to watch these two lark about? Why wasn't Loftus-Cheek brought on at the same time Ings was? I don't think you could really rate the two centre-halfs on what they had to contend with tonight, but Moore was disappointing with his distribution and you'd have to rate Chambers' chances of being better in that role.

For the Italy game I'd go:

Butland
Garbutt (he's the only left back I think?) - Gibson - Chambers - Jenkinson
Ward-Prowse - Loftus-Cheek
Redmond - Pritchard - Lingard
Kane

Didn't see the game but I wonder how many of these players will have broken into the full England squad as regulars by the time we're in France next June/July?

Probably only Kane I'd have thought.So an early (ish) exit beckons-yet again.:sad:

 

[EastStandBlue]

Didn't see the game but I wonder how many of these players will have broken into the full England squad as regulars by the time we're in France next June/July?

Probably only Kane I'd have thought.So an early (ish) exit beckons-yet again.:sad:

Butland, Chambers and Kane will go, as will Ward-Prowse if he has a good season I would've thought. There's also Shaw who, were it not for an injury, would've made the U21 squad and will definitely go to France next summer. But your argument completely fails to recognise that a number of players still eligible for the U21s have already made the move up. Wilshere, Barkley and Sterling all could've gone to this tournament but were called up for the qualifier instead.

You also fail to recognise that, while a good showing at France 2016 would be greatly appreciated, the FA are more preparing for Russia 2018 and beyond.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Butland, Chambers and Kane will go, as will Ward-Prowse if he has a good season I would've thought. There's also Shaw who, were it not for an injury, would've made the U21 squad and will definitely go to France next summer. But your argument completely fails to recognise that a number of players still eligible for the U21s have already made the move up. Wilshere, Barkley and Sterling all could've gone to this tournament but were called up for the qualifier instead.

You also fail to recognise that, while a good showing at France 2016 would be greatly appreciated, the FA are more preparing for Russia 2018 and beyond.

Perhaps we should just get our excuses in for France now, then? :winking:

 

[Blue_Wes]

Didn't see the game but I wonder how many of these players will have broken into the full England squad as regulars by the time we're in France next June/July?

Probably only Kane I'd have thought.So an early (ish) exit beckons-yet again.:sad:

It doesn't really work like that. Because we're so desperate for success, the best players never get an opportunity to grow as a young side in the youth tournaments, and instead just get fast tracked into the first team. We're the only nation that seems to value sitting on the first team bench, over playing competitive football and development at youth level.

This means that the youth teams are always far weaker than they could/should be, and weaker than our opponents, because we're hamstringing them by not always allowing them to pick the better youth players. There's always a slight improvement with tournaments, but not enough. There's a reason the Sweden game, was our first finals victory since the 2009 semi final.

 

[ozzie]

The Sweden game was i think,as everybody expected..Even more nerves,England trying ,but that spark still missing,Sweden playing as Sweden does....I expect tomorrows game to be the same,nerves 1st half,2nd somewhat different....but if either side scores early,that would be interesting,just hope its us.
Would be very happy with another 4, 1-0, wins like against Sweden.And that from an "anti-England "fan !!!!!!

 

[RHB]

The England team for tonight's game against Italy:
[SUP]

[/SUP][SUP]

• 01 Butland
• 02 Jenkinson
• 05 Stones
• 06 Gibson
• 03 Garbutt
• 14 Chalobah
• 04 Forster-Caskey
• 11 Redmond
• 17 Ings
• 16 Lingard
• 09 Kane

Good to see Stones starting, I really rate the boy. 1-0 England?

[/SUP]

 

[Pubey]

Oops. :blush:

 

[tottenham541]

Oh dear, mountain to climb now:sad:

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Pile of overrated overpaid rubbish like the senior team and if Southgate is the best young coach we have God help us.

 

[chapperzUK]

How on earth is Chalobah so highly rated? Defensively average and unless he is passing to someone within 5 yards.

Only positives I can think of are Kane, Lingard and Redmond, possibly Jenkinson too. Loftus-Cheek decent too when he's made brief appearances. Apart from that can't think of anyone else who impressed. Garbutt was one I was looking forward to seeing and he has a cracking left foot on him, but defensively he was poor and poor crossing too.

This is what happens when you say "pass pass pass", players who when they can't pass forward will just pass back. Eventually, we got Lingard and Redmond on the ball who were willing to run at players and try to do something.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Can't agree about Jenkinson. He was very good against Sweden but him ducking out of the way for the third goal last night as an unforgivable lapse of concentration at any level of football, let alone the elite. It was schoolboy stuff, a mistake I wouldn't expect from my U11s.

I think last night's game highlighted the problem with English development far greater than any internal review could. We were technically more proficient and enjoyed more of the ball than Italy, but they far excelled us in terms of their game intelligence and management.

Compared and contrast: England were enjoying a lot of the ball early on and had two good chances to score, the Ings chance when he was put through by Kane in particular. Italy withdrew, dropped deep to contain and stifled England while they bombed forward.

Italy score a well-worked set piece routine that was helped by the two centre halfs, probably due to a lack of playing time together due to Stones' concussion, not stepping up in unison and allowing the centre forward to split them. That's a mistake, but not the crucial one. Instead of ensuring we remained in the game, Italy robbed the ball and scored with the very next attack, scything through a non-existent midfield. Chalobah was particularly to blame for this one, an absolutely shocking failure to match his runner from midfield. It was all over then.

Gary Neville was on Graham Hunter's podcast a few weeks ago, stating that we have the players we need to do well but the game intelligence, particularly at the youngest levels, was nowhere near as good as is needed. That was too evident last night.

 

[chapperzUK]

I meant about the tournament in general, but I didn't make that clear.

There is a lot made about the lack of appearances in the top flight by these players, but next season most of those who played last night will be Premiership players hopefully playing regularly. The back 4 will be regulars next season, although Gibson will probably still be at Middlesbrough, and Butland could be number 1 if Stoke decide to cash in on Begovic, who has a year left on his contract. Will be interesting to see if Lingard and Pritchard push their way towards the Man Utd and Tottenham first teams. Lingard started the first game last season, but picked up a bad injury, and Pritchard had an excellent season at Brentford. These could be loaned out again or be bedded in slowly. Kane and Redmond will be key players for their teams.

Not sure about Ings, now Liverpool have signed Firmino I can only see Ings as a backup. I can see Rodgers playing Sturridge as the main striker with Coutinho and Firmino just behind.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I meant about the tournament in general, but I didn't make that clear.

There is a lot made about the lack of appearances in the top flight by these players, but next season most of those who played last night will be Premiership players hopefully playing regularly. The back 4 will be regulars next season, although Gibson will probably still be at Middlesbrough, and Butland could be number 1 if Stoke decide to cash in on Begovic, who has a year left on his contract. Will be interesting to see if Lingard and Pritchard push their way towards the Man Utd and Tottenham first teams. Lingard started the first game last season, but picked up a bad injury, and Pritchard had an excellent season at Brentford. These could be loaned out again or be bedded in slowly. Kane and Redmond will be key players for their teams.

Not sure about Ings, now Liverpool have signed Firmino I can only see Ings as a backup. I can see Rodgers playing Sturridge as the main striker with Coutinho and Firmino just behind.

I don't see that happening at all. Jenkinson and Garbutt won't be first choice at Arsenal and Everton respectively so will have to go out on loan again in search of regular football, and Gibson's a Championship player. Chalobah couldn't buy a game on loan at Burnley last season, certainly won't be anywhere near even the bench for Chelsea next term and hasn't exactly raised his stock this summer. Forster-Caskey was in and out of Brighton's side last year and Ruben Loftus-Cheek only came to the fore when Chelsea’s title was sewn up. It’s what made James Ward-Prowse’s omission throughout the tournament even more baffling.

Redmond blows hot and cold for me. He’s certainly a good player, but he reminds me of Aaron Lennon in the sense he has all this pace but often little idea how to use it. Time and time again throughout the tournament he’d get the ball, stand up to his full-back and give the opposition time to recover. There was no great desire to get the ball in early or try something intuitive, it was all too methodical and, ultimately, predictable. Lingard was the real star of the show on the wings as at least he showed the gumption to be creative. A minute in to the second half last night be broke into Italy’s box, side-stepped past the defender and unleashed a shot that, an inch to the right, would’ve sparked an early fightback. It was England’s most dynamic moment of the match.

Kane and Ings were the only players with regular top-level football, and it showed, although having said that I expect Pritchard to make great strides next season and usurp Tom Carroll in Pochettino’s good books, I know speaking to Spurs’ academy goalkeeping coach t’other week that he’s incredibly highly rated by the coaching staff there.

England can claim to have been incredibly unlucky with injuries to key players throughout. Shaw, Berahino, Stones for the first two games and Pritchard for the third were big misses. Southgate deserves to keep his job and in my opinion has made great strides in developing the side. I make him right that there’s barely anything between the 8 teams who qualified (worth remembering that France and Spain couldn’t even do that), but that shouldn’t be used as an excuse for something that’s become prominent at the finals. England’s youth players can certainly play the game, but they have little idea how to control it.

 

[chapperzUK]

Jenkinson looks set to leave with West Ham obviously interested, although there has been a change in manager so who knows if that will still happen. Garbutt has gone on loan to Bournemouth as well.

The central midfield is the obvious weakness, watching Chalobah and Forster-Caskey was like watching 2 players who were scared to make a mistake. Forster-Caskey was completely annonymous and the only reason I remember Chalobah was playing was because if he tried a pass that was longer than a few yards it was woeful. Tom Carroll didn't impress either and agree that Pritchard will certainly be ahead of him next season. The two players who I wanted to see were Ward-Prowse and Will Hughes, yet they barely played.

I don't want to start a should they or shouldn't they go argument, but it is worth remembering that our best players in that position have moved up to the full senior team.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Whole thing was a waste of time really, as a lot of our best of age players weren't there;

Wilshere
Stirling
Barkley
Shaw
Ox

 

[EastStandBlue]

Whole thing was a waste of time really, as a lot of our best of age players weren't there;

Wilshere
Stirling
Barkley
Shaw
Ox

It's far from a waste of time. Kane gave a good account of himself and showed he's worth persevering with (consequently I haven't been sold on him until this tournament, but he showed far more qualities throughout than I initially gave him credit for), while we've learned some players obviously won't be worth the hassle. Other players of huge potential like Loftus-Cheek and Ward-Prowse, who are eligible for the next U21 campaign, also gained valuable tournament experience.

But the most valuable learnings from a national perspective are that the young sides need to be focusing on game management and tactical awareness far more than they have been.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

It's far from a waste of time. Kane gave a good account of himself and showed he's worth persevering with (consequently I haven't been sold on him until this tournament, but he showed far more qualities throughout than I initially gave him credit for), while we've learned some players obviously won't be worth the hassle. Other players of huge potential like Loftus-Cheek and Ward-Prowse, who are eligible for the next U21 campaign, also gained valuable tournament experience.

But the most valuable learnings from a national perspective are that the young sides need to be focusing on game management and tactical awareness far more than they have been.

It could've been far more beneficial for those worth sticking with if they had the 5 players I mentioned there too.

Who knows, might have even won it, and what better experience could they have than that?

I don't but this idea that now they've played for the senior side they shouldn't play for the U21. You only need to look at Spain, a few of their EURO 2008 winners then went and won another tournament with the U21

I'd probably agree that Wilshere not going is right, as he is a starter in the seniors and with his injury record having a summer off makes sense.

However, Shaw could do with all the football he could get. Some more experience could help make Sterling more effective for the senior side, same goes for barkley. having those there would have really helped kane too.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Shaw's injured, and there were doubts over Oxlade-Chamberlain being fit enough for the tournament. Sterling and Wilshere both played against Slovenia. I agree about Barkley though. He should've been out there rather than keeping a bench warm.

 

[buffalowolf]

Ive always believed you play your strongest side no matter what.Players shouldnt just be handed an England cap no matter what the level,they should be earnt.Sorry to me its ******** to say ,they played at senior level so shouldnt play under 21s.As we all are aware a lot of things need addressing and changing if English football is ever going to be strong again.
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