West Ham United

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ May 20 2005,20:36)]But if I'm travelling home on C2C on a Friday night after work and a few beers with a loud mouth West Ham fan who hasn't got off the train by Benfleet am I still allowed to slag him off and threaten to punch his lights out if he doesn't stop going on about the f**king 'Ammers...................?

Believe me, I've wanted to do that to a few so-called Southend fans on a Friday night on the train home!

So ... yes .....

WS

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 20 2005,19:30)]They have a choice and if they choose not to support Southend United then so be it. They don't warrant someone wandering around after them, waving a walking stick and shouting about supporting your local team. Those days are over ...

I don't think anyone said that people should be denied their choice. The question is why on earth, as supporters of our local football club, we should want the alternatives to become more attractive choices. By all accounts if they don't go up this year they are well and truly up sh*t creek. They got under 20,000 for an FA Cup tie against Championship opposition this year and if they get stuck in the Championship or, even better, do a Sheffield Wednesday it could be a sign of things to come. On the other hand, if the scum go up there will be more people who choose them as a result, both amongst fans with split loyalties and kids choosing their team - do you deny that?

It only takes a fairly simple bit of logic to work out what effect that will have on our revenue, both now and in the future. I'm well aware that it's going to happen to a greater or lesser extent anyway, but how the hell can Southend fans root for it?

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 20 2005,21:27)]if the scum go up there will be more people who choose them as a result, both amongst fans with split loyalties and kids choosing their team - do you deny that?

Nope.

But then most kids would probably prefer to see Manchester United to Macclesfield Town, Chelsea to Chester, Liverpool to Lincoln, Arsenal to Scunthorpe. You can't deny that ...

WS

 

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ May 19 2005,13:47)]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 19 2005,13:13)]Maybe you're right, but having had the argument and agreed to disagree I don't see why it was necessary to rub it in. We've established that Wet Sham aren't exactly loved around here so why gloat when they win? Should Shrimpers fans with family Col Ewe or Borient links do the same?

Because he's 'taking the ****'. Believe me Mike is as dedicated a Southend fan as you'll find and would only want what was best for the club regardless of any family ties with other clubs. Any comments on here are purely a wind up and trying to provoke a reaction - which is exactly what you gave him!

I can almost hear him chortling away in Spain right now.

There's enough of Mike for two clubs anyway

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Shrimp in a Kilt @ May 20 2005,23:54)]There's enough of Mike for two clubs anyway  

 

Yes, thank you, Thomas ...

WS

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 20 2005,19:30)]Does it matter if kids from Southend go and support someone else? It's not as if they have a sense of loyalty. The worldwide multimedia has saturated us all and there's no longer that sense of a "local club" being the only team you can watch. Just switch on your SKY digibox and you can follow whoever you want. You can't FORCE kids to go down to Roots Hall. If they can afford to jump onto a train and watch a far better quality of football up at Upton Park, White Hart Lane, Highbury, Stamford Bridge, even The Valley, then so I see no reason for you to get so upset about it. When I lived in Southend, I saw far more replica shirts from the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Newcastle United ... are you going to start hating them as well? Southend United will NEVER attract the interests of all the kids in the town, no matter how many family days and cheap tickets you throw at them. They have a choice and if they choose not to support Southend United then so be it. They don't warrant someone wandering around after them, waving a walking stick and shouting about supporting your local team. Those days are over ...

WS

If its one thing I can't stand more than people wearing Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Newcastle United replica shirts in Southend, its people wearing Premier$hite replica shorts.

 

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 21 2005,09:13)]

Quote[/b] (Shrimp in a Kilt @ May 20 2005,23:54)]There's enough of Mike for two clubs anyway  

 

Yes, thank you, Thomas ...

WS

You're welcome Mike... there is rapidly becoming enough of me for two clubs as well - diet manyana, I think.

 

[Kim Mitten]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ May 20 2005,10:17)]I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it until people realise the truth, the way to tell who your rivals are is to walk around Southend, be it the high street, the sea front or the local drinking establishments and count the number of opposition shirts.

Surely by that then are 'rivals' are actually Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham becasue i've seen as many of those shirts in the town as i have West Ham.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Kim Mitten @ May 22 2005,17:42)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ May 20 2005,10:17)]I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it until people realise the truth, the way to tell who your rivals are is to walk around Southend, be it the high street, the sea front or the local drinking establishments and count the number of opposition shirts.

Surely by that then are 'rivals' are actually Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham becasue i've seen as many of those shirts in the town as i have West Ham.

BINGO!

WS

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Kim Mitten @ May 22 2005,16:42)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ May 20 2005,10:17)]I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it until people realise the truth, the way to tell who your rivals are is to walk around Southend, be it the high street, the sea front or the local drinking establishments and count the number of opposition shirts.

Surely by that then are 'rivals' are actually Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham becasue i've seen as many of those shirts in the town as i have West Ham.

As I said before, I'm well aware that glory-hunting will always exist to some extent, but Wet Sham go out of their way to market themselves on our doorstep. Whether it's morally right or wrong IT ISN'T GOOD FOR US, surely a fairly simple point to understand. Would you welcome any of those other sides you mentioned if they decided to open their next megastore within walking distance of Roots Hall - after all, they probably all have the local fanbase to justify it.

There's nothing we can do about Arsenal/Manure/Chelski attracting local glory hunters, but we have a very real chance of seeing Wet Sham condemned to Coca-Cola league status for years to come, and that at least eliminates much of the attraction of one of the clubs who take away potential local support.

Anyone who wants to cheer Wet Sham is quite entitled to do so, but it's my opinion that you can't reconcile that with saying that you only want what's best for Southend.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 22 2005,20:56)]... Wet Sham go out of their way to market themselves on our doorstep.

BECAUSE market forces dictated so NOT because they knew it would **** off a few Southend fans!! Jeez! I dare say that if there was a sizeable Southend following in the Green Street area, our club would be looking to tap into that potential!

Believe me, every West Ham fan I know here in Spain ~ and they must number about two dozen or so that I KNOW personally ~ will be cheering on Southend this coming Saturday. To use an FM-ism, that is FACT. There is none of this alleged rivalry, in fact it's very much ONE WAY. In their own words, why should they bother hating a little team like Southend when they have Millwall just across the river. In truth, quite a few would put down the Shrimpers as their second team. And that can't be a bad thing ...

WS

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 22 2005,20:56)]Anyone who wants to cheer Wet Sham is quite entitled to do so, but it's my opinion that you can't reconcile that with saying that you only want what's best for Southend.

Why not?!

Are you now disputing my own loyalty to Southend United?!

What about all those Southend fans who were cheering for Arsenal yesterday? Or for Chelsea in the Premier$hite? In fact I know Southend fans who are also Middlesbrough fans, Rangers fans, Wolves fans, hell I even know a Shrimper who also follows the fortunes of QPR!! Are you going to dispute THEIR loyalty as well?! After all I bet there were plenty of Arsenal shirts being paraded in Southend last night!!

Jeez!

WS

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 22 2005,21:44)]What about all those Southend fans who were cheering for Arsenal yesterday? Or for Chelsea in the Premier$hite? In fact I know Southend fans who are also Middlesbrough fans, Rangers fans, Wolves fans, hell I even know a Shrimper who also follows the fortunes of QPR!! Are you going to dispute THEIR loyalty as well?! After all I bet their were plenty of Arsenal shirts being paraded in Southend last night!!

As I already said, that's going to happen anyway - it was Liverpool in the 80's, Manure in the 90's and I wouldn't mind betting it'll be Chelsea next. Because of Wet Sham's unignorable presence in the area many people view them as an alternative local club. As you've already acknowledged, the more Hamsters attracted by Premier$hite status, the less people left in the pool which will be split between other clubs, us included. By simple definition that's not what's best for us, even if you want to stick you head in the sand and pretend otherwise.

Why exactly do you think that the scum are hated so much more amongst our fans than far more successful sides? They are a pretty bizarre choice of club to be "jealous" of! And why exactly would they hate us back when we are such a soft touch and so many people are willing not only to accept the competition but to actively encourage it?

Unless you want to claim that Wet Sham going back into the Premier$hite will have no adverse effects whatsoever on our revenue, both now and in the future, as opposed to if they remain a Coca Cola League side then it follows indesputably that you are rooting for something that, in this specific instance, is not what is best for Southend.

Wriggle out of that one.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 22 2005,23:00)]Wriggle out of that one.

Wriggle out of what?!

You can't force kids to watch Macclesfield Town at Roots Hall when they would probably much rather watch Manchester United at Upton Park!! What are you going to do ~ gather them all up at gun-point from the railway station and march them en masse to the family stand?! It's a shame but that's life.

Because of simple demographics, a sizeable proportion of Southend's population will always head back up into East London ~ and beyond ~ to watch West Ham United. Getting all hysterial about it isn't going to change things.

Nor will calling my loyalty into question ...

WS

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

By the way, it's ironic that you have a West Ham United player displayed as your avater!

WS

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 22 2005,22:22)]You can't force kids to watch Macclesfield Town at Roots Hall when they would probably much rather watch Manchester United at Upton Park!!

No, but I can pray that the alternative is Wet Sham vs. Brighton instead. Less people will be attracted by that, hence there are more football fans left in our vicinity, with the cost of a ticket in their pocket on a Saturday afternoon. Very elementary reasoning.

All I asked regarding your loyalty was whether you thought that a Wet Sham promotion was what was best for Southend. I don't see how it can possibly be for the reasons I've outlined but that would appear to be a question you have no intention of answering.

And I'm well aware of the irony of my avatar, but these days I only view him as a demigod.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 22 2005,23:33)]All I asked regarding your loyalty was whether you thought that a Wet Sham promotion was what was best for Southend.

I don't think a promotion would matter anyway. Southend and West Ham home games tend to be staggered so I can't see how it would affect our attendances at all. The only concrete factor that does is Southend United's performances on the pitch. I very much suspect that a 6,000+ average this season has all to do with our promotion push and less to do with the performance of the Hammers in the Championship.

I'm guessing that you're probably in your mid-20s? Without meaning to be patronising, you probably won't remember evening games on the North Bank in the early 80s where West Ham fans sang, cheered and supported Southend quite openly. There was very little animosity (if any). In my opinion, this West Ham "thing" is quite recent ...

WS

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 22 2005,22:39)]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 22 2005,23:33)]All I asked regarding your loyalty was whether you thought that a Wet Sham promotion was what was best for Southend.

I don't think a promotion would matter anyway. Southend and West Ham home games tend to be staggered so I can't see how it would affect our attendances at all. The only concrete factor that does is Southend United's performances on the pitch. I very much suspect that a 6,000+ average this season has all to do with our promotion push and less to do with the performance of the Hammers in the Championship.

I'm guessing that you're probably in your mid-20s? Without meaning to be patronising, you probably won't remember evening games on the North Bank in the early 80s where West Ham fans sang, cheered and supported Southend quite openly. There was very little animosity (if any). In my opinion, this West Ham "thing" is quite recent ...

WS

Fair enough, I guess we just disagree. As I recall, the competition from the Hamsters on Saturdays was a large part of our decision to play on Fridays whenever possible, which would suggest to me that there is a negative correlation between their following and ours. I think that our 6,000 average attendance is a combination of both factors, and I think we'll get less next year if we are in League 1 following a Wet Sham promotion, but only time will tell.

As I indicated before, my experience of Essex Hamsters is very different from yours but again that may well be a generational thing. Regardless of that,the opening of the club shop and the feeder club proposal was always going to bring such questions to the fore, irrespective of the rights and wrongs.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ May 22 2005,23:49)]As I recall, the competition from the Hamsters on Saturdays was a large part of our decision to play on Friday's whenever possible, which would suggest to me that there is a negative correlation between their following and ours.

I think it was more an attempt to bump up the crowds because a lot of fans were involved in local football on Saturday afternoons. But you might be right. Sort of. Perhaps.

WS

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Kim Mitten @ May 22 2005,16:42)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ May 20 2005,10:17)]I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it until people realise the truth, the way to tell who your rivals are is to walk around Southend, be it the high street, the sea front or the local drinking establishments and count the number of opposition shirts.

Surely by that then are 'rivals' are actually Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham becasue i've seen as many of those shirts in the town as i have West Ham.

Yes, finally people are seeing the light!

I think Wet Sham still number the most replica shirts in Southend, with Man Ure plc, the Ar$e, Chel$ki, Liverpool and Spurs not far behind.

The more those clubs fail, the more fans we will get through the gates at Roots Hall. I'm sure Wet Sham's failings have helped us average 6,000+.

Have a look at our gates for European football nights compared to other Tuesdays. The earlier the English clubs get knocked out of Europe the better it is for English football (plus it keeps the players fresher for Sven).