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Woohoo! He's Home at last

callan

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
3,603
what p!sses me off, is that this guy has been on one long holiday for the past eight years.
All funded by the tax payer.
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
Fascinating insight DS, it's rare that we get to hear any of these stories in the mainstream media - I'm sure it would be far more valuable in getting horrible right wing *******s like me to regard Arabs with a lot more empathy. Do you think that your number of 99% would apply in Saudi Arabia? We have a perception that Saudi is a hot bed of extremism due to Osama and the many Saudis involved in 9/11, but is that really the case? It's interesting that predominantly Muslim states like the UAE have zero tolerance for this extremism whereas Western/Christian countries seem to let it go. I know which method I favour.

Rusty , with these arguments we go round in circles , it is always teh individual interrpretation of the ideals , even the guards of teh Al-Quaida compands have a differnet view of Osama himself , the right wing polices of Hitler and Churchill were horizions aprt .

We cannot solve or deal with these's issue with labels and generalisations.
And the only time zero toerlance "worked" on a "fundamentalist" state was when we nuked Japan at the end of WWII. And even then .
Where people are involved theres no simply answers . A person becomes fundamental when they believe they have no choices left . We ned to show them there are always choices (and kneecapp arms dealers !!!)
 

Desert Shrimper

The Oil Baron
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
2,152
Location
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
And the only time zero toerlance "worked" on a "fundamentalist" state was when we nuked Japan at the end of WWII. And even then .
Where people are involved theres no simply answers . A person becomes fundamental when they believe they have no choices left . We ned to show them there are always choices (and kneecapp arms dealers !!!)

Sorry Osy but one chat with a Pakistani taxi driver who lived in the shadow of the Taliban would blow that theory out of the water. They're not confused adolescents, they're ruthless killers who believe they're doing god's work in ridding the world of people who share a different view- an explosive combination that must be forced out.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
Sorry Osy but one chat with a Pakistani taxi driver who lived in the shadow of the Taliban would blow that theory out of the water. They're not confused adolescents, they're ruthless killers who believe they're doing god's work in ridding the world of people who share a different view- an explosive combination that must be forced out.

Good call DS, not everyone who ends up fighting the Americans and the British is an idealist forced into their actions by the awful western capitalist system (there's a McDonalds in Baghdad etc etc). Most of them are just murderous pricks.
 

Desert Shrimper

The Oil Baron
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
2,152
Location
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
Fascinating insight DS, it's rare that we get to hear any of these stories in the mainstream media - I'm sure it would be far more valuable in getting horrible right wing *******s like me to regard Arabs with a lot more empathy. Do you think that your number of 99% would apply in Saudi Arabia? We have a perception that Saudi is a hot bed of extremism due to Osama and the many Saudis involved in 9/11, but is that really the case? It's interesting that predominantly Muslim states like the UAE have zero tolerance for this extremism whereas Western/Christian countries seem to let it go. I know which method I favour.

You wouldn't hear about it because that would be deemed a negative story and hence not allowed to surface. I only heard about it via a Pakistani who spent most of his his early life fighting the Taliban on the Pakistan/Afghanistan borders and came to the UAE to escape. I actually like the positive media here, it makes reading the paper so much less depressing than in the UK (but that is another argument.)

Nobody knows too much about Saudi as a whole. It's a dark, dark place where laughing in public is unnacceptable and women are routinely second class citizens (although there have been very recent moves to moderacy in this area - they recently appointed a female Minister for example.) I have no idea how people get through the days, whatever the salary......

The mistake people make is to judge the whole region by this one country, rather like judging Essex by Canvey Island or Basildon (it happens.) My own perspective is that the real danger of extremism comes from Pakistan. Newsweek recently labelled it "The most dangerous place on the planet" and from the converstaions I've had with Pakistanis who have got out of there, I'm inclined to agree...
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
Sorry Osy but one chat with a Pakistani taxi driver who lived in the shadow of the Taliban would blow that theory out of the water. They're not confused adolescents, they're ruthless killers who believe they're doing god's work in ridding the world of people who share a different view- an explosive combination that must be forced out.

Adolsence of mind ? Theres many who have gone through bodily growth yet few who's mentality seems to have grown.
Lack of world view and understanding of the bigger picture comes from education which has little to do with age. The people are "educated" by the Imams some of whom have never questioned (against Islams teachings in some variations of that faith) or have their own agendas (of course not a sole perspective of Islam). An individual conditioned to believe absolutly within their ideologies and to never question is dangerous no matter what we call their philosphies . George W believed in the rapture (earth gets wiped out the rapturus asend to heaven and the rest die), as did Ronnie Regan, and people feared their belifes inspired their decisions .

A person will be driven to kill those s/he see's as a threat of course thats built into us. But how this is focused , and how the individual acts is the important part .
 

Desert Shrimper

The Oil Baron
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
2,152
Location
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
Good call DS, not everyone who ends up fighting the Americans and the British is an idealist forced into their actions by the awful western capitalist system (there's a McDonalds in Baghdad etc etc). Most of them are just murderous pricks.

Indoctrinated, murderous pricks. They weren't born that way it was forced into them and that's the cycle which needs to be stopped. It's too late once they've reached fighting age. Hence in the UK, standing by and watching the preachers of hate outside Finsbury Park mosque every week in the 90's might have been the tolerant thing to do but it wasn't very clever. The police van and a flight to Islamabad approach would have been a little less tolerant but a much better idea in my opion.....
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,211
Location
Immersed in the accounts
Unless you are in possession of all the facts I am assuming this is only your opinion.

My main argument is that he had a chance to stay in this Country but decided not to take it. Why should we have him back now?

4 years between being arrested and charged (later dropped) is over the legal limit for detention in the UK therefore I think the term excessive is a touch more than an opinion

I think torture in Guantanamo bay is a little more than mere opinion.
The Yanks took him to Morocco to exploit the lax human rights issues there (the very human rights breaches they themselves are fond of castigating middle eastern countries for) , why would they need to do that if they were applying to the law (of the UN not even the land)
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,211
Location
Immersed in the accounts
My main argument is that he had a chance to stay in this Country but decided not to take it. Why should we have him back now?

Thats what I was sort of getting at in my second statement, However we had granted him leave to remain and as such had taken responsibility.
The problem seems to be whether to allow asylum seekers with leave to remain to travel overseas.
 

steveo

mine to stay the same please
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
7,545
Thats what I was sort of getting at in my second statement, However we had granted him leave to remain and as such had taken responsibility.
The problem seems to be whether to allow asylum seekers with leave to remain to travel overseas.

But its not like he went on a sightseeing holiday to Paris is it.

He also says the British intelligence services knew he was being tortured so if thats his view of the British view towards him, why would he want to come back?

Why doesn’t he bugger off back to Pakistan?
 

Mad Cyril

Proud sponsor of Mark Molesley's white trainers⭐
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
18,237
Location
Flavour country
If I was an innocent muslim that had been shot, imprisoned or tortured by the state because they believed I was a terrorist I would be rightfully angry and would take any opportunity to publicise my plight.

I find it odd that these same people rarely use this same platform of publicity to denounce terrorism and any group that uses violence to achieve its objectives.

Perhaps they do but I guess that doesn't make such good copy.
 
Last edited:

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
But its not like he went on a sightseeing holiday to Paris is it.

He also says the British intelligence services knew he was being tortured so if thats his view of the British view towards him, why would he want to come back?

Why doesn’t he bugger off back to Pakistan?

I've always fancied going to Kashmir - this chap has got less of a chance of being shot at than this white boy, so why not?
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
I've always fancied going to Kashmir - this chap has got less of a chance of being shot at than this white boy, so why not?

So you sincerely believe that he was just going over there to fill up the memory card on his digital camera? And if you fancy going to Kashmir, just pop up the road to Leicester. There are certain similarities.
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
So you sincerely believe that he was just going over there to fill up the memory card on his digital camera? And if you fancy going to Kashmir, just pop up the road to Leicester. There are certain similarities.

Well I don't remember snow capped mountains last time I was up at The Walkers stadium. :stunned:
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,211
Location
Immersed in the accounts
But its not like he went on a sightseeing holiday to Paris is it.

He also says the British intelligence services knew he was being tortured so if thats his view of the British view towards him, why would he want to come back?

Why doesn’t he bugger off back to Pakistan?

I don't what he did out there, and i am guessing that if you were honest nor do you (you might have a guess , but I am sure thats all it is unless you have been privvy to is holiday snaps)


So he says that the British Intelegence knew he was being tortured, That may be a poor view of British intelligence but I can't see why that would stop him wanted to return. As for going back to Pakistan, he was there for a couple of months, its like telling half of Canvey to bugger off back to Magaluf
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
I don't what he did out there, and i am guessing that if you were honest nor do you (you might have a guess , but I am sure thats all it is unless you have been privvy to is holiday snaps)


So he says that the British Intelegence knew he was being tortured, That may be a poor view of British intelligence but I can't see why that would stop him wanted to return. As for going back to Pakistan, he was there for a couple of months, its like telling half of Canvey to bugger off back to Magaluf

Then he can bugger off back to Ethiopia. Would that be OK?
 

steveo

mine to stay the same please
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
7,545
I don't what he did out there, and i am guessing that if you were honest nor do you (you might have a guess , but I am sure thats all it is unless you have been privvy to is holiday snaps)

Of course I dont know. I would guess he would be hanging out with bad guys. Probably learning some of their terrorist methods, maybe learning how to fire a gun, if he didnt know already.

Assuming you dont know either, I would be interested to hear what your guess would be.
 
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