Fire in North Kensington.

[rigsby]

Death toll now up to 30

 

[Benfleet A1]

Is that real? **** me, is there no limit to the depths that these journalist ****stains will sink to?

Its total bollocks, that cladding was banned in the US and Germany.

Death toll up to 30 now.

 

[dloman]

Every thread? I only post anti-Tory stuff on relevant threads, like this one - when the leader of the country doesn't deem the survivors of a terrible tragedy worthy of her time. If you don't like it Ricey, stick me on ignore.

I imagine even Thatcher or Cameron would have shaken a few hands and mutter a few platitudes.

To be honest she was more than likely advised by the Police not to do so. But that is not suiting your agenda.

 

[dloman]

If this place is anything like the rest of London many of the flats/rooms will have been sub let. Identifying victims is going to be very tough indeed.

Sadly this is probably correct.

 

[mattitouk]

Is that real? **** me, is there no limit to the depths that these journalist ****stains will sink to?

It seems not.

Kings college hospital is to lodge a complaint with the press watchdog over a sun journalist who is alleged to have impersonated to be a relative of a victim of the Grenfell Tower in order to gain access to the ward & get an interview with him.

 

[C C Csiders]

Did anyone see Charlie Stayt on BBC Breakfast lay into Sajid Javid on the retro-fitting of water sprinklers? Javid made some mealy mouthed platitudes and Stayt got properly angry....and rightly so :thumbsup:

Charlie Stayt is excellent - a rare breed in that he has done real jobs before getting to the BBC; and not straight from Private Education and Russell Group Uni.

 

[MK Shrimper]

To be honest she was more than likely advised by the Police not to do so. But that is not suiting your agenda.

But Jeremy Corbyn and The Queen did. Even Sadiq Khan faced an angry crowd.

She's been called out by politicians on both sides, including those in her own party. But don't let that deter you from your blind adoration of MayBot.

 

[C C Csiders]

To be honest she was more than likely advised by the Police not to do so. But that is not suiting your agenda.

Well the Queen managed to get through the security cordon today.

 

[C C Csiders]

But Jeremy Corbyn and The Queen did. Even Sadiq Khan faced an angry crowd.

She's been called out by politicians on both sides, including those in her own party. But don't let that deter you from your blind adoration of MayBot.

Adoration of the Maybot? And the three Wise Men in question are Boris, Hunt and Javed I assume?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Adoration of the Maybot? And the three Wise Men in question are Boris, Hunt and Javed I assume?

I've had wiser poos.

 

[londonblue]

Well the Queen managed to get through the security cordon today.

She's a sneaky one that Queen. Did she don camouflage paint and combats?

 

[MK Shrimper]

She's a sneaky one that Queen. Did she don camouflage paint and combats?

Bumrush the show.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Long post here but an interesting one. From a mate who worked on the roof at Grenfell a while back and has worked on many similar buildings over the years.

So a bit of background
So Grenfell tower, in the last ten years has had a 10+ million refurbishment and a 1 million pound
roof upgrade and if I remember quite a lot of work. So been no problem with budget.
They also have a maintenance budget to do fire alarm, emergency lighting and fixed wiring testing.
RBKC split it into several contracts. The one's I've worked on, consultants who don't do to much take
20% of it. The budgets are very healthy for maintenance.
Who is maintaining it and are all the records in place along with competency certs on who was
maintaining.
So it's an old building with lifts and one fire escape. The fire escape is repeated blocked by cars
etc..... been an ongoing issue. Also it seems people have been dumping in communal areas. Why
wasn't it cleared and has it been cleared but more keeps getting dumped. There should be records
on how they managed it.
The big question is. Why wasn't an external escape built on the side and why were sprinklers not put
in place.
So the fire brigade no longer certify buildings, done by consultants who do a fire risk assessment. If
the assessments said this should be done, massive problem. Then why wasn't this a priority.
If this wasn't part of the fire risk assessment, then in the same way you get your boiler serviced,
once it's passed your responsibility ends. So what was in the risk assessments is the key pre
refurbishment.
Was cladding done for external look in an area they are trying to make nicer or was it for energy
efficiency?
So a big portion is if it was in the fire risk assessment, if so, why did RBKC decide to prioritise
something else. If not, why did the company doing the assessment not put it in.
Also in a fire risk assessment, you get a rating, normally, trivial, moderate or high or similar words
used. Historically what was the rating.
The question of why one wasn't done after the refurbishment? When you complete a project you
have to complete a health and safety file, normally done as an O and M manual, signed and
approved by the client. Did this have a fire plan and strategy/risk assessment in it? It should have
done.
If not, who accepted it and why did they? Normally you would get another one done as well. But for
all purposes the O and M one is sufficient.
If the risk assessments showed issues and they were not actioned, then they have legal liability
under various regulations of the health and safety at work act.
It's not beyond reasonable doubt, but on a balance of probability, the stronger the balance the
tougher the repercussions.
So that's fire risk assessments in a nutshell.
Investigation, this will take quite a long time, the floors have to be deemed structurally safe to allow
people to enter to search for bodies. Heart breaking, only when that is done will investigators be
allowed to enter and start piecing it together.
What you're looking for in an investigation is
How the fire started and how it spread. What routes did the fire take.
Fire triangle is ignition, fuel and air. What ignited it and from personal experience was something
that could be an accelerant present in the building. Air is everywhere; fuel is everywhere in products
that burn, but if something burns quicker it can cause problems outside the design. The Bradford fire
had paper under the stands; kings cross because fire under the stairs, the recent fire in Perivale had
flammable products that should not have been stored. I've seen gas bottles left by contractors and
fuel stored for a motorbike while doing social housing. You have to investigate that angle because it
does not appear to be a natural fire. Not by a long stretch.
You then have to look at the fact it looked liked it travelled up the outside, was this a design flaw? Or
bad construction practice? Are the correct sign offs in place from building control and client
witnessed handovers. One flaw would look that if the windows were open and you've made a fire
tunnel outside then it would mean fire and smoke into every flat. And it really looks it raced up
outside the building.
I'd also look at why some insulation panels look intact but badly burnt while some disintegrated?
That would be a huge point of any investigation for me.
It spread to quickly up the outside and into the flats, so you also have to look at the damage to
common areas that are supposedly compartmentalised compared to flats. You can find the evidence
from concrete testing. If the damage is higher in the flats, then it came from the outside.
You look at product use, has this been used before elsewhere, you look at its data sheets and
properties. You also then look at how they show it being built and then you check the O and M
manuals as built drawings to see if it was built the same way.
Something like this, it's hard not to get emotional and jump to conclusions. However I've been
trained not to and I do not like RBKC, but there is so much to look at until information can be
provided and answers obtained.
Also one final one, I've never even heard of Rydon. So there are CDM regulations, as a client you
have to ensure the company you employs are competent to do the job, have they resources,
experience, expertise etc.... What checks were done on this company and had they done this type of
work before. If you employ companies who are not capable, in breach of CDM regulations.

 

[Pubey]

True leader, and good to hear her concerns about the psychological affects going forward.

I know a firefighter who was injured on duty when a floor gave way and he received excellent care. I hope that in a time of tighter budgets across the emergency services and the NHS, that they get exactly what they need.

 

[Beefy]

I thought Khan looked out of his depth yesterday. He was blustered and clearly bothered by the anger of the crowd but at least he stood up and showed some leadership. Surely part of being a leader is being accountable at a point like this. May should have fronted up.

 

[C C Csiders]

I thought Khan looked out of his depth yesterday. He was blustered and clearly bothered by the anger of the crowd but at least he stood up and showed some leadership. Surely part of being a leader is being accountable at a point like this. May should have fronted up.

It is amazing because earlier this week, in a closed room with no media with just Conservative MPs, she was apparently contrite and showed great leadership. Funny that!

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Protesters have stormed the Kensington and Chelsea town hall. The protesters have demanded:

A written commitment from the council on immediate rehousing of Grenfell Tower Fire, within the borough.
Immediate release of funds to cover welfare and all losses suffered by the victims.
Commission investigation into the recent refurbishment of the tower.
Release full list of victims so families can bereave the dead.
Commission investigation into all similar buildings in the borough to identify fire, health and safety risks and put in place immediate control measures.
They have said they will not leave the town hall until demands are met.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Why has Lilly Allen turned up?

 

[rigsby]

Why has Lilly Allen turned up?

To make people smile

 

[Benfleet A1]

Why has Lilly Allen turned up?

To **** stir a bit more. Has already suggested a cover up. Must have a new album out.