2017 General Election thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Isn't it only an actual conviction that stops you standing rather than being under investigation?

yes but as cases are expected to be lodged within a few weeks either side of the election she had to clarify as she could end up with candidates missing hustings as they are at the local nick answering questions! I don't know why these investigations have taken so long, it's been said that Conservative Central Office hampered investigations but even so I can't see how there is that much evidence to go through.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

In fairness to her, as far as she's concerned it probably isn't a snap election. She probably knew about it weeks, if not months, ago.

In which case she's a liar.As in her recent TV interviews with Andrew Neil and on Marr she repeated the no snap election mantra.

very true, if the LibDems in 2010 had gone into the election saying they were looking to form a coalition they would have got as many votes as they did in 2015. If no party has a majority, that's when you start looking at cutting deals.

That I think is Labour's best,if not their only, chance of forming the next government.

Older zoners will remember that in 1974 Heath asked: "Who governs?" To which the voters replied, Not you mate.Let's hope something similar will happen this time.

 

[Benfleet A1]

yes but as cases are expected to be lodged within a few weeks either side of the election she had to clarify as she could end up with candidates missing hustings as they are at the local nick answering questions! I don't know why these investigations have taken so long, it's been said that Conservative Central Office hampered investigations but even so I can't see how there is that much evidence to go through.

Several local forces lumping evidence together maybe. Wasn't Thanet South allegedly involved in this? I only ask as Farage hasn't made much of a song and dance about it which is strange in itself.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Several local forces lumping evidence together maybe. Wasn't Thanet South allegedly involved in this? I only ask as Farage hasn't made much of a song and dance about it which is strange in itself.

that was one of the first places mentioned, I was surprised too by his silence, maybe he just got bored of UK politics

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

BBC are reporting that Labour have said there will be no deal with SNP. Bullet dodged there.

though Farron is refusing to rule out a LibDem/Tory coalition apparently. Bit odd as May wants the GE to be on Brexit and she is hard Brexit and he is no Brexit

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

though Farron is refusing to rule out a LibDem/Tory coalition apparently. Bit odd as May wants the GE to be on Brexit and she is hard Brexit and he is no Brexit

She said "No GE" but changed mid stream; she is negotiating for Brexit, maybe her strategy IS to be outwardly, overt, hard Brexit BUT who really knows what the true Politics is? Same for Tim Dim.

 

[manor15]

though Farron is refusing to rule out a LibDem/Tory coalition apparently. Bit odd as May wants the GE to be on Brexit and she is hard Brexit and he is no Brexit

As a student, fully aware that a sniff of power means policies can be quite easily shelved by the Lib Dems.

Massive shame really as policy wise I think the Lib Dems would appeal the most to the majority of young people, but after betraying them on tuition fees they have given themselves a mountain to climb to get those votes.

 

[* ORM *]

In which case she's a liar.As in her recent TV interviews with Andrew Neil and on Marr she repeated the no snap election mantra.

.

If changing your mind after a publicly stating a position is a crime then I'm guilty. So far all I think I've seen on this thread from Labour supporters is unconstructive hatred. The day they have a credible chance is the day they work out a way of financing the policies they want to put in place. In my lifetime no Labour Party has been able to rule without leaving its successor having to work out how to get the country out of a mess. We would all like free NHS, free tuition fees, free this, free that. Guess what money costs money. The best thing that Labour voters could do is vote Lib Dem forcing another coalition so that right of centre policies are negotiated before being implemented. I'm be no means a hardened Tory but they are the only credible option as things stand today.

 

[Benfleet A1]

that was one of the first places mentioned, I was surprised too by his silence, maybe he just got bored of UK politics

Yeah, maybe. He has said he is thinking about standing again. I'd give it up if I was him, what is it now, seven failures at getting elected? Time to take a hint Nigel.

 

[* ORM *]

Actually i would liken voting in Labour to an all you can eat buffet. Seems a good idea at the time but you always end up regretting it afterwards.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If changing your mind after a publicly stating a position is a crime then I'm guilty. So far all I think I've seen on this thread from Labour supporters is unconstructive hatred. The day they have a credible chance is the day they work out a way of financing the policies they want to put in place. In my lifetime no Labour Party has been able to rule without leaving its successor having to work out how to get the country out of a mess. We would all like free NHS, free tuition fees, free this, free that. Guess what money costs money. The best thing that Labour voters could do is vote Lib Dem forcing another coalition so that right of centre policies are negotiated before being implemented. I'm be no means a hardened Tory but they are the only credible option as things stand today.

the thing is you are just repeating the same old misconception or lie (depending on who is stating it and why) that the Tories are economic geniuses and Labour fools. This government has borrowed more than all Labour governments combined.
The reality is that spending money on NHS, schools, transport means we have a healthy, intelegent, workforce who can get to work on time. And if you increase the spending power of the average person then they will spend it and stimulate the economy.

The failures that this current government are repeating includes allowing companies such as Starbucks, Google and Amazon to dictate their own low levels of tax. So they pay less towards the essential services that their workforce and custom base needs and shift their profits out of this country and put their tax paying UK rivals out of business. With the NHS tens of millions of contracts are being signed off to Richard Branson who runs these services at a profit and sends the profit to offshore tax havens. With transport they allow the franchise of Southern to continue despite it completely failing the employers of its commuters and at the same time pumping more emergency tax payers money in to those routes - the profits of which go to a French company part owned by the French government.

The Labour bad / Tories good on the economy doesn't hold up to the most basic levels of scrutiny.

 

[EastStandBlue]

If changing your mind after a publicly stating a position is a crime then I'm guilty. So far all I think I've seen on this thread from Labour supporters is unconstructive hatred. The day they have a credible chance is the day they work out a way of financing the policies they want to put in place.

My feelings on the current Labour leadership have been abundantly clear but, in Corbyn's defence, the last handful of policies have been costed. It's just elements of the public haven't liked where the money's come from.

It'll be interesting to see - if full and forthright manifestos are released - what kind of state the respective economic positions are in. Spreadsheet Phil didn't exactly cover himself in glory at the last attempt, and McDonnell's got lunatic tendencies.

 

[londonblue]

In which case she's a liar.As in her recent TV interviews with Andrew Neil and on Marr she repeated the no snap election mantra.

I was actually being tongue-in-cheek. However, assuming I'm right, I don't really see a lot wrong with what she's done. Granted it's a bit underhand, but she's hardly going to give the opposition advanced notice is she?

 

[superblue24]

This government has borrowed more than all Labour governments combined.

Once again, this is a little bit of a misleading statement, isn't it? I gave you a reasonable source from the ONS the other day to which you responded with some link to Huffington Post which also felt it necessary to ignore the full truth and concentrate on reporting on half the story. Here is the actual evidence once again.

The reality is that spending money on NHS, schools, transport means we have a healthy, intelegent, workforce who can get to work on time. And if you increase the spending power of the average person then they will spend it and stimulate the economy.

Sounds like you've just solved all the problems in the world with your "cool story" there, bro. keep people healthy and the buses running and all our problems will go away. Simple as that, hey?

The "reality" is that no matter how much is plunged into the NHS, it will never be enough. There are too many people getting older than before, too many people sitting in A+E with non-urgent issues, too many patients unnecessarily staying in hospital beds. There is also the general issue of rising costs of medicines.

You fittingly mispelt "intelligent"

The failures that this current government are repeating includes allowing companies such as Starbucks, Google and Amazon to dictate their own low levels of tax.

Between 1998 and 2012, Starbucks paid 8.6 million in tax. Can you remind me who was running the government during the majority of that time? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19967397

So they pay less towards the essential services that their workforce and custom base needs and shift their profits out of this country and put their tax paying UK rivals out of business.

Evidence of this happening, or just your opinion? Can you provide figures for Starbucks versus a nearby "local" competing coffee shop and provide the wage differentials please? I would like to see such figures. Reliable sources only, please.

With the NHS tens of millions of contracts are being signed off to Richard Branson who runs these services at a profit and sends the profit to offshore tax havens.

According to research (something you don't invest much time into), Virgin Care has made a loss of 9-10 million since 2010. So would you rather the government be losing this money, or a private firm? In turn, it is difficult to send negative profits to offshore tax havens I'd have thought.

http://www.nhsforsale.info/private-providers/private-provider-profiles-2/virgin.html

With transport they allow the franchise of Southern to continue despite it completely failing the employers of its commuters and at the same time pumping more emergency tax payers money in to those routes - the profits of which go to a French company part owned by the French government.

ahh, the good ol' rail franchise argument again.

Well, I'll leave this one to the experts. KPMG put together this detailed report back in 2013 which is well worth a read but since I know you "wont have time", I'll put the conclusion right here for your convenience.

The franchising model has enabled train
companies to generate significant financial
returns for the Government, played a
crucial role in delivering unprecedented
growth in journey numbers, and provided
passengers with improved services and
better value.


Key to this success has been the
competition to win and run franchises
which has focused passenger rail
operations on encouraging more travel
by train through improved services and
offering good deals. This approach has
been crucial to transforming the railway,
ensuring it continues to act as a social good
for the nation.


Train operators will continue to help drive
a more prosperous economy, in particular
if the railway remains open to greater
enterprise and innovation. Above all, train
companies want to devote their energies
to providing passengers with what they
want because it is good for business and
the country. In that way, the railway will
continue to drive growth, improve services
and deliver the biggest benefits to Britain

If you felt like reading the full report, it is here:

http://www.atoc.org/download/clientfiles/files/ATOC Growth and Prosperity report.pdf

The Labour bad / Tories good on the economy doesn't hold up to the most basic levels of scrutiny.

Well, I've given you a basic level of "scrutiny" here, I wont suggest I've offered anything more..... But "basic" was all you suggested, so you are again incorrect.

You drone on about how you hate these lies and "U-Turns", yet your own posts are littered with falsification, inaccuracies and sometimes plain and simple nonsense..... and you make out that these statements are 100% correct and have come straight from the source. Have you not heard of the famous line, "two wrongs don't make a right"?

 

[rigsby]

My feelings on the current Labour leadership have been abundantly clear but, in Corbyn's defence, the last handful of policies have been costed. It's just elements of the public haven't liked where the money's come from.

It'll be interesting to see - if full and forthright manifestos are released - what kind of state the respective economic positions are in. Spreadsheet Phil didn't exactly cover himself in glory at the last attempt, and McDonnell's got lunatic tendencies.

Like the last two ideas. Free school dinners and more pay for carers, nice idea but trying to tax the wrong people to pay for it. If he had the balls to tackle the big tax dodgers, companies and individuals then he might gain some votes but he would rather appeal to student union politics. People who will be voting Labour anyway.

 

[southendkid]

As a student, fully aware that a sniff of power means policies can be quite easily shelved by the Lib Dems.

Massive shame really as policy wise I think the Lib Dems would appeal the most to the majority of young people, but after betraying them on tuition fees they have given themselves a mountain to climb to get those votes.

I was a student until last year and this has never bothered me as much as most people, it sucks I'll probably be paying my loan back until it gets written off but it is nice that we repay £24 a month less than the old scheme. I think Farron actually went against Clegg and voted against the fees though.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I was actually being tongue-in-cheek. However, assuming I'm right, I don't really see a lot wrong with what she's done. Granted it's a bit underhand, but she's hardly going to give the opposition advanced notice is she?

Personally,I was quite a fan of fixed term governments.After the disasterous Brexit referendum they'll be what Call Me Dave is remembered for.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39649119

JC vows not to play by the rules.:thumbsup:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Like the last two ideas. Free school dinners and more pay for carers, nice idea but trying to tax the wrong people to pay for it. If he had the balls to tackle the big tax dodgers, companies and individuals then he might gain some votes but he would rather appeal to student union politics. People who will be voting Labour anyway.

Watch out for Labour's manifesto.It's rumoured that it might contain much higher taxation for those earning over 70 K.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Like the last two ideas. Free school dinners and more pay for carers, nice idea but trying to tax the wrong people to pay for it. If he had the balls to tackle the big tax dodgers, companies and individuals then he might gain some votes but he would rather appeal to student union politics. People who will be voting Labour anyway.

I'll reserve judgement until Labour's full manifesto - plus costings - is released, but I completely agree that Corbyn will simply have to tackle tax dodging corporates if he's to gain popularity where he and the party needs it most. It's probably worth noting though that this is a problem the Tories have failed to tackle too, and one that's unlikely to be dealt with any better at least until after the Brexit dust has settled. We'll have to wait and see what's within their respective manifestos.

As for "taxing the wrong people", well, that's the key political differences between the two parties, is it not? Labour and the Conservatives have different views on social equality and fairness. It doesn't mean that either of the two are right or wrong, it's just a difference of opinion and standpoint.

At the end of the day the general public will judge the two parties on the merits of their policy and their leader. As a centrist(ish) lefty I'd struggle to vote for any Conservative government - particularly one led by someone of Theresa May's ilk - but I'd also say that, in my opinion, Corbyn has pulled Labour too far to the left and it has created far more of a political divide than before, particularly given that Brexit has given rise to more prominent right wing politics. It's that entrenchment that is negative for the country, and one I can't see being resolved by Labour in its current guise, led by its current leader.