England

[Yorkshire Blue]

I only saw the second half. Felt very much like the world cup games. Unable to get the ball, keep the ball and wasteful in good positions.

Theo played himself out of the squad IMO, while Townsend showed he's a useful option from the bench.

Apparently if Carrick makes the 2016 squad he'll have the longest England career since Matthews.

With a significant pinch of 'benefit of hindsight', are we starting to see how England could have achieved quite a lot more if Carrick was regularly picked for England over the past 8-12 years? Individually not as good as Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard etc but a vital player doing important work.

I also though Clyne showed naivety, but is worth purservering with seeing as we don't have any decent competition at right-back at the mo, at least until Walker develops a brain.


Hart
Clyne - Cahill - Jags - Baines
Henderson - Carrick - Delph
Sterling - Rooney - Welbeck

Not a bad team at all on paper, with players in their best positions and a mixture of pace, skill and reasonably solid in defence too.

Seems pretty midtable to me.

Also just as important is the strength in depth - but at least Townsend, Kane, Barkley etc are giving us some options.

First half was appalling, but second half showed some encouraging signs.

It might have only been a friendly, but they are important for ranking points and seedings.

 

[Pubey]

Seems pretty midtable to me.

Also just as important is the strength in depth - but at least Townsend, Kane, Barkley etc are giving us some options.

First half was appalling, but second half showed some encouraging signs.

It might have only been a friendly, but they are important for ranking points and seedings.

I'd take midtable after the last WC.

 

[Beefy]

Last World Cup was better than the one before. At least we put in one good performance. With a bit of luck we'd have got through that Group.

In the previous two tournaments we've well-and-truly stunk the joint out playing horrible football. This time we just weren't very good.

 

[ozzie]

i thought our last world cup effort was the worst ever,the 1st half (yesterday)was just a repeat.i know it was the Italians 2nd team,but they were the worst Italian team ive seen and still could not beat them.2nd half was better,but our defenders!!!!Sorry ,but still dont think we are getting better

 

[buffalowolf]

U/21S played well against Germany u/21s.to come from behind twice and win 3-2 ,showed a lot of grit and determination.Well done to the lads.I just hope that many of them can go onto become Full time regulars in the senior team and show the same grit and determination .

 

[Beefy]

i thought our last world cup effort was the worst ever,the 1st half (yesterday)was just a repeat.i know it was the Italians 2nd team,but they were the worst Italian team ive seen and still could not beat them.2nd half was better,but our defenders!!!!Sorry ,but still dont think we are getting better

Which part of the World Cup in particular did you think was so terrible to make it the "worst ever"? The 50/50 game against Italy with plenty of attacking football? The Uruguay game where they managed two shots on goal all game? The 'B' international against Costa Rica?

We didn't put a single performance in in 2014 which was worse than any of Slovenia, Algeria or Germany in 2010.

2014 was a failure but that happens from time to time. We could easily have won both the first two games had we had a slice of luck and had we got both of the penalties that we should have got in those matches.

 

[londonblue]

Which part of the World Cup in particular did you think was so terrible to make it the "worst ever"? The 50/50 game against Italy with plenty of attacking football? The Uruguay game where they managed two shots on goal all game? The 'B' international against Costa Rica?

We didn't put a single performance in in 2014 which was worse than any of Slovenia, Algeria or Germany in 2010.

2014 was a failure but that happens from time to time. We could easily have won both the first two games had we had a slice of luck and had we got both of the penalties that we should have got in those matches.

You could also argue that it should have been 2-2 going in at half time against Germany in 2010...

 

[Uncle Leo]

Which part of the World Cup in particular did you think was so terrible to make it the "worst ever"? The 50/50 game against Italy with plenty of attacking football? The Uruguay game where they managed two shots on goal all game? The 'B' international against Costa Rica?

We didn't put a single performance in in 2014 which was worse than any of Slovenia, Algeria or Germany in 2010.

2014 was a failure but that happens from time to time. We could easily have won both the first two games had we had a slice of luck and had we got both of the penalties that we should have got in those matches.

Agree. 2010, despite us getting through the group, remains the nadir of my time as an England fan. Worse than Euro '88, worse than Euro '92 (just) and certainly worse than Brazil '14. An appalling couple of weeks.

 

[Beefy]

You could also argue that it should have been 2-2 going in at half time against Germany in 2010...

It should have been 2-2 at half time. We wouldn't have deserved it, but we'd have taken it.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Watched the whole game. The first 45 minutes was an experiment that didn't work, but still it was only an individual error (Jones getting caught horribly square on against Chiellini) that saw Italy pull ahead. I could see what Hodgson's aim was - stifle Italy and then counter using Clyne and Gibbs - but neither full-back was prepared for that role and Henderson and Delph were overrun in midfield too easily. The one glaring chance of that half was Rooney's perfectly executed ball to Walcott, but he took a touch inside rather than across the defender, who then easily nullified the chance. That's my big problem with Walcott, he's had all of his instinct and risk-taking edge coached out of him so now he plays within himself. If he brings that ball across his body and makes the touch across the defender, he's either through on goal or draws the foul in the box. Instead he opted for the safer control, which gives the defender - who had lost all sight of him - time and space to recover. Poor.

Second half was a completely different story and Carrick brought a much calmer and collected presence. The passing game improved and we looked far more likely to get in behind Italy, who struggled to contain us for large period of the second half. Had we taken our chances we'd have left Turin with a decent, well-earned win.

As for who played themselves in/out of favour, I'd say Hodgson knows now to build the midfield around Carrick at the base of the diamond, while Phil Jones acquitted himself much better at centre-half than he did in midfield. Delph, again, was handy with the ball but almost useless without it. Walcott shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI when everyone's fit and able, and neither should Gibbs. Clyne I want to see in a more familiar position before passing any judgement, but Italy had an awful lot of joy down our right-hand side all evening.

Big shout out to Jordan Henderson though who proved himself to be every bit the replacement for Gerrard by being ****ing woeful in a white shirt despite being in the form of his life in a red one this calendar year.

I think the diamond suits us well and is fairly adaptable, which is what we'll need in big games. If it's true that we're lining up friendlies against France and Spain before next summer's tournament, then I'd like to see us go -

------------Hart-----------
Baines - Jags - Cahill - Clyne
----------Carrick-----------
---Henderson - Wilshere----
---------Sterling-----------
-----Rooney - Strurridge----

With the front three encouraged to rotate occasionally. Barkley needs more games but I thought, while driving forward well, his decision making in the final third was poor and he gave the ball away an awful lot. Kane's a decent option from the bench but could well replace Sturridge by next summer, and I'm more than happy to replace Wilshere with James Ward-Prowse if he continues his upward trajectory.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Good write-up ESB. Only seen brief highlights so can't comment too much on the game, but Sturridge's injury problems worry me a little. I'm a big fan, but he just doesn't seem able to get a good run going.

 

[Pubey]

Good write-up ESB. Only seen brief highlights so can't comment too much on the game, but Sturridge's injury problems worry me a little. I'm a big fan, but he just doesn't seem able to get a good run going.

He's also a selfish ****er. Maybe in part due to his injuries and not getting a decent run - he's too desperate to pull the trigger when there are better options available.

 

[EastStandBlue]

He's also a selfish ****er. Maybe in part due to his injuries and not getting a decent run - he's too desperate to pull the trigger when there are better options available.

He's just not a team player. Never has been.

 

[ozzie]

Which part of the World Cup in particular did you think was so terrible to make it the "worst ever"? The 50/50 game against Italy with plenty of attacking football? The Uruguay game where they managed two shots on goal all game? The 'B' international against Costa Rica?

We didn't put a single performance in in 2014 which was worse than any of Slovenia, Algeria or Germany in 2010.

2014 was a failure but that happens from time to time. We could easily have won both the first two games had we had a slice of luck and had we got both of the penalties that we should have got in those matches.

Beefy,imo,from the first kick of our friendly -build up games,till the last kick v Costa,we were poor.Did not get better,we could still be playing all 3 w.c games now,and we would not have scored.its not bad luck
i had to watch the game ,sadly,live on German eurosport,my laptop keeps going "kaput"...they thought we were also very poor,till about the last 15 mins.Our defence,which we know are poor,they classed as amateur,they even started laughing at us ,i think in the 50-55th min,when we defended..it was poor ,again,against the worst Italian team ive ever seen..imo

 

[Uncle Leo]

BDid not get better,we could still be playing all 3 w.c games now,and we would not have scored.its not bad luck

I'm not saying we were great, but we *did* score against Italy...

 

[Beefy]

I'm not saying we weren't poor. We ARE poor. That's our place in the football hierarchy at the moment. I thought for what we are now we could leave Brazil feeling unlucky that we didn't progress further. I felt humbled a bit after Brazil. I felt humiliated after South Africa even if we went a round further.

Personally I'll take us going for it and failing over stinking the joint out and limping through. Where I have an issue with Hodgson and the World Cup was him surrendering the final game.

 

[Beefy]

I'm not saying we were great, but we *did* score against Italy...

And Uruguay.

 

[Beefy]

Walcott shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI when everyone's fit and able, and neither should Gibbs.

For me Theo is still our best player. We have two players who can trouble the best teams in the World - Sterling and Walcott. They'd be the first players on the team sheet for me.

 

[buffalowolf]

Lets all be honest England are light years away from being the once feared nation they were.Yes they have one or two very good players ,but sadly too many just average players,need the whole system in England upgraded,that is from junior academys to the clubs themselves. Too many foreign players ( who really are no better than the average championship english player )playing in the leagues,need for them to be culled ,therefore giving more locals a better chance of progressing by playing premier league.Anyway now you can pick on this thread but those are my beliefs.Pretty soon Australia will be ranked higher than England ,and who would ever have thought that 10 to 15 years ago.

 

[Rob Noxious]

I think that there has been genuine progress since the Brazilian debacle and that might not just be because we're in a relatively easy qualifying group. Rooney seems to have thrived on assuming the captaincy and there is certainly far more support for him (with pace) up front than he's ever had before. Defensively we are there to be tested much more thoroughly when it comes to the serious business though. And despite all the plaudits for Carrick, the midfield is not that creative. Encouraging signs from Barkley but he does get caught in possession in dangerous areas. And how talismanic is Andros Townsend? A wonderful strike that earned Gigi Buffon's shirt from him.