Overrated managers

rigsby · Apr 3, 2024

stewart said:
There was that world cup winning captain who managed Southend , also that Liverpool legend that managed Southend ,the two Redknap managers that he introduced to RM that managed Southend .

The thing is none of them were ever overrated

HUMBLEPIE · Apr 3, 2024

stewart said:
There was that world cup winning captain who managed Southend , also that Liverpool legend that managed Southend ,the two Redknap managers that he introduced to RM that managed Southend .

Your forgetting Alvin Martin former England international at least he didn’t try management again and he has supplied us by sounds of it a descent goalkeeper and coach.

Kris · Apr 3, 2024

Ricey said:
Plenty of managers have won trophies. Di Matteo won the Champions League. Doesn’t make him a great manager. My point is over rated. They way they talk about him in the same breath as the ‘greats’ is embarrassing.

You also make it out like he’s done it on a shoestring. They spent silly money at Liverpool as well, some people seem to forget that.

Using that logic, Pep Guardiola is overrated as well.

Napster · Apr 3, 2024

In terms of Southend managers, only Ted Fenton was expected to have done better than he did after his long spell at West Ham.

Dave Smith had a decent spell at Mansfield before coming here, so his success was expected, as maybe was Paul Sturrock's and Phil Brown's first spell. Colin Murphy had mixed success before coming here. The rest had limited exposure to management before Southend.

cerbera45 · Apr 3, 2024

rigsby said:
The thing is none of them were ever overrated

Exactly, which was the whole point of this discussion

Tangled up in Blue · Apr 3, 2024

Napster said:
In terms of Southend managers, only Ted Fenton was expected to have done better than he did after his long spell at West Ham.

Dave Smith had a decent spell at Mansfield before coming here, so his success was expected, as maybe was Paul Sturrock's and Phil Brown's first spell. Colin Murphy had mixed success before coming here. The rest had limited exposure to management before Southend.

Suprised you didn't mention Alvin Williams.After all he relegatedc us in his first season 65/6 (for the 1st time in our history to the old 4th Division,failed to get us us up in the next season before pushing off to Wrexham ,where he was later imprisoned for manslaughter IIRC.

Ricky Otto · Apr 3, 2024

manor15 said:
manor15 said:

Carlo Ancelotti. Bailed out by getting on with the players at Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, Chelsea, done nothing anywhere where the players aren’t the best in the league with Napoli, Everton. Yeah, he did well with Berlusconi money at Milan, but that was 15 years ago.

Click to expand...

I'd be the 1st to say he was poor at Napoli, but Aurellio De Laurentis is not an easy owner/chairman to work for. I really think he is one of the greats, and like most of the greats you can make a case for them being lucky to have certain players or financial backing. These takes are usually obtuse, and I think this one is too.

Ricky Otto · Apr 3, 2024

Max Allegri - was dominant with Juve when they were breaking all kinds of financial fair play rules and spending far more than any other club in the league. His return to Juve has shown him to be short of ideas and a negativity he sells as pragmatism. With the players he has and and no European distraction Juve should be challenging for the scudetto.

manor15 · Apr 3, 2024

Ricky Otto said:
I'd be the 1st to say he was poor at Napoli, but Aurellio De Laurentis is not an easy owner/chairman to work for. I really think he is one of the greats, and like most of the greats you can make a case for them being lucky to have certain players or financial backing. These takes are usually obtuse, and I think this one is too.

It is a bit obtuse yep, was thinking of the coaches who have achieved a lot and are thought of as among the very elite but perhaps aren't that good.

Since he's come back to Real Madrid, he's been in La Liga with almost no competition and still managed to lose to Barcelona last season and let Girona keep up for half of this year. In the Champions League, his players bailed him out and I say that as someone who was at the Chelsea and City games at the Bernabéu and saw quite how drastically wrong he set the team up for both but the quality and the players bailed him out.

Perhaps overrated for his whole career is harsh, but I think he gets more credit than he might deserve for what he's done over the last few years considering he was on a real downward trajectory before Real Madrid had nobody else to turn to.

Napster · Apr 3, 2024

Tangled up in Blue said:
Suprised you didn't mention Alvin Williams.After all he relegatedc us in his first season 65/6 (for the 1st time in our history to the old 4th Division,failed to get us us up in the next season before pushing off to Wrexham ,where he was later imprisoned for manslaughter IIRC.

Williams only spent one season at Hartlepool before us So he was hardly overrated!

stewart · Apr 4, 2024

Sorry Napster MM and his team were supposed to save us from relegation that wasnt happening so RM got rid of him and bought back EL Tango both failed

Tangled up in Blue · Apr 4, 2024

Napster said:
Williams only spent one season at Hartlepool before us So he was hardly overrated!

You have an interesting way of defending your point :Winking:

AW along with Mark Molesley must surely rate as the worst managers in SUFC's history,

Floval Flyer · Apr 4, 2024

Ricey said:
Jurgen Klopp

Yeah, him and that Alex Ferguson and Bill Shankly ! And definitely Brian Clough… all won f*** all

Napster · Apr 4, 2024

Tangled up in Blue said:
You have an interesting way of defending your point AW along with Mark Molesley must surely rate as the worst managers in SUFC's history,

The thread talks about over-rated managers, not managers who under-delivered.

MM wasn't over-rated, no one knew anything about him.

LCBB72 · Apr 4, 2024

Tangled up in Blue said:
You have an interesting way of defending your point AW along with Mark Molesley must surely rate as the worst managers in SUFC's history,

You have forgotten Dick Bate and Colin Murphy .

Floval Flyer · Apr 4, 2024

LCBB72 said:
You have forgotten Dick Bate and Colin Murphy .

Murphy was nuts, and is up there as one of the worst managers, but redeemed himself with a certain signing.

Yorkshire Blue · Apr 4, 2024

Napster said:
In terms of Southend managers, only Ted Fenton was expected to have done better than he did after his long spell at West Ham.

Dave Smith had a decent spell at Mansfield before coming here, so his success was expected, as maybe was Paul Sturrock's and Phil Brown's first spell. Colin Murphy had mixed success before coming here. The rest had limited exposure to management before Southend.

Alan Little was manager at York for 6 years!

kaymac · Apr 4, 2024

manor15 said:
It is a bit obtuse yep, was thinking of the coaches who have achieved a lot and are thought of as among the very elite but perhaps aren't that good.

Since he's come back to Real Madrid, he's been in La Liga with almost no competition and still managed to lose to Barcelona last season and let Girona keep up for half of this year. In the Champions League, his players bailed him out and I say that as someone who was at the Chelsea and City games at the Bernabéu and saw quite how drastically wrong he set the team up for both but the quality and the players bailed him out.

Perhaps overrated for his whole career is harsh, but I think he gets more credit than he might deserve for what he's done over the last few years considering he was on a real downward trajectory before Real Madrid had nobody else to turn to.