Scottish Independence

[Benfleet A1]

I probably now need to digest your response for a bit to understand it better. I did ask and you answered, so thanks.

For all his mickey taking, actually Rusty is a clever old stick.

 

[dloman]

I see Miliband has pretty much ruled out allowing just English MP's to vote on English issues. That decision could be a vote changer for many people even in Labour heartlands

 

[Benfleet A1]

I see Miliband has pretty much ruled out allowing just English MP's to vote on English issues. That decision could be a vote changer for many people even in Labour heartlands

I would say that he has practically handed the Tories a second term after coming out with this.

 

[Benfleet A1]

You have to ask yourself, has Scotland dodged a bullet by rejecting Independence when you read stuff like this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11110051/Telegraph-reporters-barred-from-Alex-Salmonds-resignation-press-conference.html

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I would say that he has practically handed the Tories a second term after coming out with this.

Really? Why do some people get obsessed with adding new layers of beaurocracy in the name of democracy? Where does this regionalism come from - better together makes sense to me. Johnson wanting new powers for the London region and keeping more tax for that region - why? As League 2 supporters surely we can see the bigger picture and there is life outside of the top league - and making Britain even more London centric and even more people want to cram into the overpopulated capital.
I already vote for an English parliament - it just includes MPs from the other parts of the Uk too. This new types of democracy is ******** when they don't execute the current democracy properly. Schools forced to be academies against the parents will and away from the elected Council's control. Councils taking a government department to court to stop them closing down A&E units. Tripling of tuition fees that wasn't in the manifesto, gay marriage (that I approve of) not in the manifesto. Scottish referendum - not in the manifesto.
We don't need new regional democracy, we have local councils - they just have their powers removed by the central government. English laws for the English, London tax raising, just more admin and different authorities ending up in court against each other. Just execute our current democracy properly don't distract us with some new version we won't be allowed to use.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Really? Why do some people get obsessed with adding new layers of beaurocracy in the name of democracy? Where does this regionalism come from - better together makes sense to me. Johnson wanting new powers for the London region and keeping more tax for that region - why? As League 2 supporters surely we can see the bigger picture and there is life outside of the top league - and making Britain even more London centric and even more people want to cram into the overpopulated capital.
I already vote for an English parliament - it just includes MPs from the other parts of the Uk too. This new types of democracy is ******** when they don't execute the current democracy properly. Schools forced to be academies against the parents will and away from the elected Council's control. Councils taking a government department to court to stop them closing down A&E units. Tripling of tuition fees that wasn't in the manifesto, gay marriage (that I approve of) not in the manifesto. Scottish referendum - not in the manifesto.
We don't need new regional democracy, we have local councils - they just have their powers removed by the central government. English laws for the English, London tax raising, just more admin and different authorities ending up in court against each other. Just execute our current democracy properly don't distract us with some new version we won't be allowed to use.

Jesus, where did that lot come from, you have a bad week at work or something? I was merely pointing out that now the West Lothian Question is finally being addressed, I think Milliband has dropped a severe clanger by saying he won't at least look at changing the current system. I personally think both the WLQ and The Barnett Formula are long overdue for change.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

You have to ask yourself, has Scotland dodged a bullet by rejecting Independence when you read stuff like this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ex-Salmonds-resignation-press-conference.html

A great day. Not just the no vote but the resignation of the nasty bigotted divisive liar. The above link says it all about his paranoia. Good riddance.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Jesus, where did that lot come from, you have a bad week at work or something? I was merely pointing out that now the West Lothian Question is finally being addressed, I think Milliband has dropped a severe clanger by saying he won't at least look at changing the current system. I personally think both the WLQ and The Barnett Formula are long overdue for change.

People on the TV saying 'how about independence for England' - independence from what? Pitting us against each other. All because a minority government cut a deal with Scottish Nationalists because their ability to have majority votes in Parliament hang in the balance. Economies of scale, uniform policy, working together, efficiency, equality - these makes sense to me.

 

[Benfleet A1]

People on the TV saying 'how about independence for England' - independence from what? Pitting us against each other. All because a minority government cut a deal with Scottish Nationalists because their ability to have majority votes in Parliament hang in the balance. Economies of scale, uniform policy, working together, efficiency, equality - these makes sense to me.

Isn't that's what has just happened in Scotland? Punch-ups in Glasgow tonight between 'YES' and 'NO' supporters. This referendum has achieved nothing apart from splitting a nation and turning people against each other. Cameron, Clegg and Milliband have all promised the earth which has just given English MP's to fire power to demand extra powers. As I read in one of the papers today stated, Cameron and the rest should have gone to negotiations with a big stick rather than a white flag.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Isn't that's what has just happened in Scotland? Punch-ups in Glasgow tonight between 'YES' and 'NO' supporters. This referendum has achieved nothing apart from splitting a nation and turning people against each other. Cameron, Clegg and Milliband have all promised the earth which has just given English MP's to fire power to demand extra powers. As I read in one of the papers today stated, Cameron and the rest should have gone to negotiations with a big stick rather than a white flag.

Exactly, this kind of thing is divisive and has knock on effects beyond its intension. Such fundamental changes shouldn't be an option unless a majority demand it over a substantial period of time. Following through on policies stated pre-election is democracy. Splitting the electorate into seperate regions is just change to distract from the real work not being done.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Exactly, this kind of thing is divisive and has knock on effects beyond its intension. Such fundamental changes shouldn't be an option unless a majority demand it over a substantial period of time. Following through on policies stated pre-election is democracy. Splitting the electorate into seperate regions is just change to distract from the real work not being done.

Genial Harry Grout and Another Surrey Shrimper in agreement shocker. There's hope for the country yet.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

LOL at that being because of principle. Obviously he leaped before he was pushed, and it was a done deal in his party a while ago.

Nonsense.He would have easily been nominated again at the SNP conference in November and could have held on as First Minister until at least 2016.

You could argue that it was also canny politics that made him stand down now but my own view is that he saw this as the right time to leave the stage.That's principle.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I would say that he has practically handed the Tories a second term after coming out with this.

I think Cameron's played a blinder and judging by Another Surrey Shrimper's post, it seems it has the Labour party in a bit of a pickle. Without those Scottish MP's Milliband is almost powerless when it comes to English issues and the tories know it. They will be going for the kill from now till the GE on this one.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

You have to ask yourself, has Scotland dodged a bullet by rejecting Independence when you read stuff like this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ex-Salmonds-resignation-press-conference.html

nasty odious man - unfortunately, Nicola Sturgeon doesn't seem much better.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Nonsense.He would have easily been nominated again at the SNP conference in November and could have held on as First Minister until at least 2016.

You could argue that it was also canny politics that made him stand down now but my own view is that he saw this as the right time to leave the stage.That's principle.

He has just lost the referendum of course he had to step down. What's your view with banning certain journalists from his news conferences and then trying to hand pick others then???

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

nasty odious man - unfortunately, Nicola Sturgeon doesn't seem much better.

Given that independence voters were mainly male,she's likely to appeal to female voters.

 

[londonblue]

Yes, but that only means anything if all the voters were supporters of one party, in reality they would be proportioned in the same way those that voted would be.

Voting in a referendum counts for something, voting in Southend West in the current system means nothing.

Maybe the fall out of the Scotland vote will change that system and make people in landslide areas have more reason to vote.

No it doesn't. Look at the numbers closely. For example in 2010, 23,377 didn't vote, but the majority was 7,270.

What I'm getting at is that it is a fallacy to not vote because it won't make a difference. Every vote counts the same and if you don't use it then more fool you.

 

[londonblue]

I believe it is your fundamental right to abstain if you don't feel that any of the parties adequately reflect your values and beliefs. Mandatory voting within the current party system will only further empower the left of centre PC consensus.

And for that reason there should be an abstain choice on the ballot paper.

 

[BrettieAngell]

well you can spoil your vote

 

[Napster]

I spoiled my vote by voting for the bloke who shook my hand as I went into the hall. The fact he was from the Tories is a massive coincidence. By the by, I did say good luck to the Lib Dem but he took it in the ironic way I meant. Labour sadly didn't bother showing in my local election, either at the hall, or in the election itself. LOL