Scottish Independence

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I think Cameron's played a blinder and judging by Another Surrey Shrimper's post, it seems it has the Labour party in a bit of a pickle. Without those Scottish MP's Milliband is almost powerless when it comes to English issues and the tories know it. They will be going for the kill from now till the GE on this one.

His own party don't seem to think so, all the reports are that Cameron's performance generally and last minute giveaway in particular have left a lot of his party up in arms. Then trying to set a timetable for agreed Scottish changes to newly mentioned unagreed English changes means that it now looks like he is breaking the promises he made a few days ago. Sure it is his attempt to sitch up the Labour Party but far from playing a blinder it is small change from various **** ups.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

This whole Scots vote stuff may be the kick in the pants that politics in the UK needed, for sure all the main parties have recognised the dissatisfaction with Westminster and the urgent need for change.
Personally I don't believe devolved powers for cities etc is wanted by the voters but reform of things such as H of Lords, electoral boundaries and voting by Scots on English issues are on the agenda now when they weren't 6 months ago.
The first salvo has been fired by Ed with the promise of a whole 8 EIGHT pounds an hour minimum wage; I expect the other parties will soon accept this and add it to their promises for the GE.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

The neverendum in Scotland is producing some comedy gold at the moment. As well as 90,000 fools signing a petition claiming the vote was rigged, the yesers are now calling themselves the 45 (45% of those who voted who voted no - I call them the 38 which is the actual percentage of those registered who voted Yes). These pathetic idiots are now convincing themselves there will be another referendum, are organising a boycott of firms that pointed out it was no in Scotlands interests or theirs for Scotland to be independent and they might have to move to England. These democrats who banged on about the "sovereign will of the Scottish people" now call those who voted no traitors or fools who were conned by the Westminster establishment. 4 tellers at the Highland region poll were suspended for booing no votes and cheering yes votes as they took them out of the ballot boxes. The funniest thing is that councils have found that those who registered to vote who had not previously done so owe back poll and council tax. Well there's a surprise. They are using the registered voters list to try to get back them back.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Referendum should never have happened and I bet the Queen would have purred for a lot longer if Cameron had told her that the polls were never consistently high enough to warrant one.

Be careful with the 38% though as the Tories are running the country having gained the support of less than 24% of registered voters.

 

[mattitouk]

So here we go again then... The first Scottish independence referendum was touted as "a once in a generation opportunity"... but just 2 and a half years later, it all seems a bit like deja vu.

I cant help but think Sturgeon has jumped the gun on this, If she wanted to succeed I think she would have stood a better chance to wait and see what deals the UK have got (or not got) with the EU after brexit.

 

[MK Shrimper]

So here we go again then... The first Scottish independence referendum was touted as "a once in a generation opportunity"... but just 2 and a half years later, it all seems a bit like deja vu.

I cant help but think Sturgeon has jumped the gun on this, If she wanted to succeed I think she would have stood a better chance to wait and see what deals the UK have got (or not got) with the EU after brexit.

The landscape has changed dramatically. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain, so I completely agree on why they should go down the same route as England & Wales when they didn't want it. I wonder if NI will also push for it, if they're successful.

With a Scottish wife, I hope they get it and I can apply to keep the benefits that being part of the EU bring.

 

[EastStandBlue]

So here we go again then... The first Scottish independence referendum was touted as "a once in a generation opportunity"... but just 2 and a half years later, it all seems a bit like deja vu.

I cant help but think Sturgeon has jumped the gun on this, If she wanted to succeed I think she would have stood a better chance to wait and see what deals the UK have got (or not got) with the EU after brexit.

Any indyref2 wouldn't happen until Autumn 2018/Spring 2019, by which time I'd imagine we'll have a fairly good idea of how things are going.

 

[callan]

The landscape has changed dramatically. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain, so I completely agree on why they should go down the same route as England & Wales when they didn't want it. I wonder if NI will also push for it, if they're successful.

With a Scottish wife, I hope they get it and I can apply to keep the benefits that being part of the EU bring.

The UK has membership of the EU not Scotland...Once the UK leaves the Scots will have to re apply for EU membership.

 

[mattitouk]

Sorry, I didnt make myself clear, but, Which was kinda my point, I thought she would have held off requesting indyref2 until she could "guesstimate" what deals are on the table. She hasn't got a clue at this stage of proceedings as we havent even activated article 50 yet.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The UK has membership of the EU not Scotland...Once the UK leaves the Scots will have to re apply for EU membership.

And if the UK breaks up before then?

 

[callan]

And if the UK breaks up before then?

The Scots will have to apply pre or post a final Brexit.

 

[mattitouk]

The UK has membership of the EU not Scotland...Once the UK leaves the Scots will have to re apply for EU membership.

I thought the EU has already knocked back Scotlands request to remain a member of the EU, and if it wanted to join, it would have to follow the same procedures and time frame as any other country that wants to become a member of the EU, I want to say something along the lines of an average of 7 years? if all goes well but I cant be sure.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The Scots will have to apply pre or post a final Brexit.

That is correct and something the Catalans need to take on board too.Though Scotland has a legal right to have a referendum on independence.Catalonia doesn't.

Think the time frame we're talking about here is two years.

 

[callan]

I thought the EU has already knocked back Scotlands request to remain a member of the EU, and if it wanted to join, it would have to follow the same procedures and time frame as any other country that wants to become a member of the EU, I want to say something along the lines of an average of 7 years? if all goes well but I cant be sure.

Article 49 to join would apply...there is no automatic right for Scotland to become a member of the EU in the event that they choose independence.

It would be extremely difficult for them to even join...and I would imagine assent procedure would be fully applied.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Article 49 to join would apply...there is no automatic right for Scotland to become a member of the EU in the event that they choose independence.

It would be extremely difficult for them to even join...and I would imagine assent procedure would be fully applied.

That is correct but I'd imagine they'd be fast tracked to spite the rest of the UK, if not for any other reason.:smile:

 

[callan]

That is correct but I'd imagine they'd be fast tracked to spite the rest of the UK, if not for any other reason.:smile:

Ha Ha...I doubt it...as you have already pointed out there will be various vetos by members so as not to encourage their own regions to go it alone.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Anything that disassociates us with the Jocks gets my vote. If they really think North Sea Oil can pay for all the goodies they get from the English taxpayer, then they are about as clueless as the standard Scottish goalkeeper. If they want to take the Taffs with them, good riddance.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Nicola Sturgeon has a strange definition of 'independence'. She wants to leave one political union so Scotland can stay in another one.

 

[mattitouk]

And ironically, I've just read that article 49 was written by a Scotsman! :smile:

 

[mattitouk]

Nicola Sturgeon has a strange definition of 'independence'. She wants to leave one political union so Scotland can stay in another one.

Yeah I thought the exact same thing!!