Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 0-0 Daggers

[RobM]

" Weston 7 - Pretty poor to begin with but actually grew into the game, has poor control and shot."

.....and gets a 7!

 

[Shrimper]

Phil Brown on the FLS said he saw it as a point gained... I just....

 

[banjo saviola]

Sign Cureton in January, offer him a deal until the end of the season. You take us up, you get a year extension for League 1. Simples :thumbsup:

I'd take that. Forget his age, he is a top player at our level.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Brown is boriñg the pantsof me never seen such negative tactics by a team looking to go up.àlso if weston is the answer god knows what the question is

 

[Medway Blue]

Nope - it's a pain actually. My point being I only miss games of the team I support because of valid reasons not because I go on (and on) about "no goals ..., I don't like Brown ..." Blah blah . I've seen so much worse dross down at roots hall but never once stopped going because I support the club. No one will ever like the idea 100% of what they seen, ask Liverpool fans, they saw so many goals and entertainment last season and won what ?? Nothing !! Their one chance in so many years, because why ....?

I understand this, see I haven't been supporting the club long enough to have seen much worse dross, started watching regularly in 1997/98 so saw a fair bit of the Alvin Martin and Alan Little years, which really were pretty appalling but I was a little too young to understand the ins and outs of how those Southend sides played football. I DO find it a chore going at the moment. I used to go to a lot of away games but now barely go to any, even the close ones. I still go to pretty much every home game though. I still get drawn to Roots Hall every home game in the vain hope that I'll like what I see, despite telling myself after the previous one that I won't be paying £20 (which is quite a lot to me) to be bored by a dull, lifeless performance which results in me being angry and fed-up for the rest of my weekend. But despite the fact that I still go to the home games (and it was definitely my heart that I listened to yesterday when I decided to go, NOT my head), I no longer get THAT feeling on a Saturday. I don't feel excited, nervous or indeed anything else when going to watch my tea, play at the moment. And that makes me sad. The only other time I've felt anything close to this has been when Sturrock first arrived, and that was only because I was angry at the treatment of Tilson and felt completely disconnected from a team full of 20 new players with whom I felt no affiliation. That wore off as I got to know them. This time, the feeling won't wear off until Brown goes or until he has us playing a very different style of football.

I think when we stumble people are going to usethe opportunity to press their agenda. I’m not guiltless in this, I did ittowards the end of Sturrocks reign. I didn’t press it as relentlessly as somedo on here but my opinion was made (usually in one or two posts). The footballis not good at the moment but we are in a good position which is very similarto the Sturrock years. The difference for me is that I do see potential forentertaining football with a tweak and I have seen more entertaining gamesunder Brown than I saw under Sturrock (albeit not recently). I don’t thinkBrown is as one dimensional as his critics make out either, he has implementedchange with Payne playing in the hole and Payne’s success in this role meansthe 4-4-2 that many crave would leave us unbalanced or Payne would have to besacrificed. Brown is a cautious manager and it is obvious that defence is hispriority, I still have faith that he can get it right at the other end of thepitch though.

See I don't see this as similar to the Sturrock years. I'll be the first to admit, at the time, I was vocal in my dislike of Sturrock's style of football but now in hindsight I think that was more my way of rebelling against the machine so to speak after the sacking of Tilson and the general poor management of the club, which I was steadfastly against at the time. Watching what I watch now at Roots Hall, I see Sturrock's style in a different light. Yes it was direct, but it served a purpose. We got the ball quickly into the final third, and then got it down and played it on the deck there. It was up-tempo, incisive, stretched opposition teams and most importantly of all, we looked dangerous and intelligent with the ball in the final third, got the ball into the box and scored goals.

Brown generally (apart from when his CBs hoof it) likes to play it shorter, which theoretically I prefer, but it lacks all the qualities that made Sturrock's team exciting to watch when it had the ball in the final third. There is no tempo, no intelligent movement or running into space, no running the channels, no penetrative passes, no-one getting in behind the defence......all the things that are required to make the short passing game purposeful and keep things moving forward. It is so slow, laboured and just generally boring to watch. And on the odd occasion that we do get the ball quickly into the final third, that doesn't work either because there is nobody up there! Corr drops stupidly deep to get a head on a long ball and then isn't quick or mobile enough to catch-up with play.....and he doesn't have a strike partner, so nobody is getting into the box. I would love to see how some kind of Opta stats if they were available to see how long the ball spends in the final third or even in the opposition penalty area when we are attacking. I would bet my savings on it being a low percentage. How can we expect to score goals when we only have one striker on the pitch, and when that one striker is so immobile that he is several yards behind the play so that we have no-one in the box or other dangerous areas? I can't begin to describe how frustrating it is to watch.

I'm losing patience with Payne a little now, he has been good to get us some goals but that might not be needed so much if Brown signs a striker or 2 in January. He is tricky with the ball at his feet and when he is dribbling but I think he has been sussed out a little bit playing in that hole, and he is still pretty unintelligent. You want the player sitting in the hole to roam a bit more, or to be able to spot and make a good through-pass, but I don't see Payne doing any of those things and I think he is becoming largely ineffective in home games. If we get a decent striker or two in, I'd go back to 4-4-2 at home and keep him on the bench.

 

[Ricky Otto]

I understand this, see I haven't been supporting the club long enough to have seen much worse dross, started watching regularly in 1997/98 so saw a fair bit of the Alvin Martin and Alan Little years, which really were pretty appalling but I was a little too young to understand the ins and outs of how those Southend sides played football. I DO find it a chore going at the moment. I used to go to a lot of away games but now barely go to any, even the close ones. I still go to pretty much every home game though. I still get drawn to Roots Hall every home game in the vain hope that I'll like what I see, despite telling myself after the previous one that I won't be paying £20 (which is quite a lot to me) to be bored by a dull, lifeless performance which results in me being angry and fed-up for the rest of my weekend. But despite the fact that I still go to the home games (and it was definitely my heart that I listened to yesterday when I decided to go, NOT my head), I no longer get THAT feeling on a Saturday. I don't feel excited, nervous or indeed anything else when going to watch my tea, play at the moment. And that makes me sad. The only other time I've felt anything close to this has been when Sturrock first arrived, and that was only because I was angry at the treatment of Tilson and felt completely disconnected from a team full of 20 new players with whom I felt no affiliation. That wore off as I got to know them. This time, the feeling won't wear off until Brown goes or until he has us playing a very different style of football.



See I don't see this as similar to the Sturrock years. I'll be the first to admit, at the time, I was vocal in my dislike of Sturrock's style of football but now in hindsight I think that was more my way of rebelling against the machine so to speak after the sacking of Tilson and the general poor management of the club, which I was steadfastly against at the time. Watching what I watch now at Roots Hall, I see Sturrock's style in a different light. Yes it was direct, but it served a purpose. We got the ball quickly into the final third, and then got it down and played it on the deck there. It was up-tempo, incisive, stretched opposition teams and most importantly of all, we looked dangerous and intelligent with the ball in the final third, got the ball into the box and scored goals.

Brown generally (apart from when his CBs hoof it) likes to play it shorter, which theoretically I prefer, but it lacks all the qualities that made Sturrock's team exciting to watch when it had the ball in the final third. There is no tempo, no intelligent movement or running into space, no running the channels, no penetrative passes, no-one getting in behind the defence......all the things that are required to make the short passing game purposeful and keep things moving forward. It is so slow, laboured and just generally boring to watch. And on the odd occasion that we do get the ball quickly into the final third, that doesn't work either because there is nobody up there! Corr drops stupidly deep to get a head on a long ball and then isn't quick or mobile enough to catch-up with play.....and he doesn't have a strike partner, so nobody is getting into the box. I would love to see how some kind of Opta stats if they were available to see how long the ball spends in the final third or even in the opposition penalty area when we are attacking. I would bet my savings on it being a low percentage. How can we expect to score goals when we only have one striker on the pitch, and when that one striker is so immobile that he is several yards behind the play so that we have no-one in the box or other dangerous areas? I can't begin to describe how frustrating it is to watch.

I'm losing patience with Payne a little now, he has been good to get us some goals but that might not be needed so much if Brown signs a striker or 2 in January. He is tricky with the ball at his feet and when he is dribbling but I think he has been sussed out a little bit playing in that hole, and he is still pretty unintelligent. You want the player sitting in the hole to roam a bit more, or to be able to spot and make a good through-pass, but I don't see Payne doing any of those things and I think he is becoming largely ineffective in home games. If we get a decent striker or two in, I'd go back to 4-4-2 at home and keep him on the bench.

We do disagree there then, I think only recently the play in the final 3rd has been clueless and that may be down to it being under the spotlight and our players not responding well to the pressure. I'm not saying it has been at a high standard but I think the criticism is over the top. We have been inventive and we have created, we fall down finishing. I stand by enjiying Brown era football more than Sturrock as Sturrock football totally frustrated me. So many aimless balls, half the time Corr got to them he'd do the defender in the back and we'd concede a free kick. The grace of having great delivery from Ryan Hall and Hurst was the only reason we had a respectable points tally and got goals. I think we are much closer to a successful team that can serve us in the league above also than we were with Sturrock.

Your point about Payne is a valid one, the kid is learning, he might have to drop to the bench for a few games.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

my thoughts on the game, for whatever they're worth

we started off at a quick pace which was fine but too quickly and often meant long balls to Corr. fine to start and try for the early goal we needed but as that didn't happen we struggled.
Payne was anonymous in the first half, should have swapped for Weston. Weston was rubbish out wide and Payne might of provided some quality out wide.
when Worrall went off we should of brought Timlin on and put Atkinson out wide, for me Shaq was awful but others on here thought he did something, fair enough.
basically in essence Daggers came for a point and got it, but it is a point gained coz we've all seen loads of games like that down the years where we've had all the chances but they took one and scored.
i think we lack quality in the final third, we just aren't that good. it doesn't help that our two best wingers are injured. we played loads of balls into the box that found the defender and everyone made too many poor decisions, long when it should be short and slow when it should have been fast. i would have tried Weston up front to try some pace up front and Payne's quality out wide, same with Atkinson. i didn't think that Shaq actually added anything and tended to break moves up rather than contribute to them. i'd of had Payne off for Williams fairly early in the second half to try two up top. Payne had the odd moment but didn't contribute that much overall.
Leonard looks a bit wasted sitting in front of the back four, let Timlin do that.
at least we didn't lose but 1 goal in 3 games isn't great, we need more quality in the final third then we'll take our chances

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

my thoughts on the game, for whatever they're worth

we started off at a quick pace which was fine but too quickly and often meant long balls to Corr. fine to start and try for the early goal we needed but as that didn't happen we struggled.
Payne was anonymous in the first half, should have swapped for Weston. Weston was rubbish out wide and Payne might of provided some quality out wide.
when Worrall went off we should of brought Timlin on and put Atkinson out wide, for me Shaq was awful but others on here thought he did something, fair enough.
basically in essence Daggers came for a point and got it, but it is a point gained coz we've all seen loads of games like that down the years where we've had all the chances but they took one and scored.
i think we lack quality in the final third, we just aren't that good. it doesn't help that our two best wingers are injured. we played loads of balls into the box that found the defender and everyone made too many poor decisions, long when it should be short and slow when it should have been fast. i would have tried Weston up front to try some pace up front and Payne's quality out wide, same with Atkinson. i didn't think that Shaq actually added anything and tended to break moves up rather than contribute to them. i'd of had Payne off for Williams fairly early in the second half to try two up top. Payne had the odd moment but didn't contribute that much overall.
Leonard looks a bit wasted sitting in front of the back four, let Timlin do that.
at least we didn't lose but 1 goal in 3 games isn't great, we need more quality in the final third then we'll take our chances

Agree with that. Shaq did look good but Weston actually has more end product.

Shaq's made a dozen starts with a further 8 sub appearances but has yet to make an assist. How many chances has he created in those appearances?

Weston looked poor but for all those unconvincing touches he flashed several dangerous crosses across the area. Shaq can control the ball but then what? He just turns onto his left foot and gets snuffed out. He's all fur coat and no knickers.