Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 1-0 Shrewsbury

[Jam_Man]

I said before game in pre match thread this would be the top two at end of season and nothing changed in my views. A very very impressive win for us today against one of the best sides I have seen here in donkeys years. Ryan Woods is some player and the way we defended second half was excellent. I thought any of John White, Shaq Coulthirst, Luke Prosser or Jerome Williams could have taken the MOM award.
I have to say though I thought the whole team carried Weston today. Lazy is all I can describe today's effort from him. That ball across the box was Cross of the Season and not a sniff of effort to get in danger zone.

Too many positives though and Five point advantage over this lot could be crucial come end of season shake up
Ref excellent too.

He really stood out for me too, and not just because of his his hair either.

Really good on the ball and instrumental in moving it around for them.

 

[Medway Blue]

Entertaining and very even game, both sides played decent football, don't think we were any better than them to be honest but we did well to get a valuable win against one of the sides who will be up there this season. I don't think a win against a team like that and a 5-point advantage over them now is anything to be unhappy about at all.

I do still have serious reservations about our formation though, which I think holds us back from scoring more and ends up making matches too nervy for us. I'm just don't like one up front, it's a little negative for me, and that is made worse by the fact that Brown didn't start the game with an out-and-out striker. Weston is a winger, as much as he claims to hate playing out there, and I don't see Coulhirst as an out-and-out striker either. Corr makes a good attempt at playing the lone striker role but for the most part, I think that the lone striker role requires a skill set that the average League 2 striker doesn't have and places demands on him that he isn't quite good enough to burden. Shaq and Hursty stayed out wide mostly and Payne wasn't getting forward enough to play off Weston, so the ball just wasn't sticking up top. Every time Weston or Corr produced a poor first touch or failed to win a header, there was once again no-one following in to win the second ball because the gap between our lone striker and the rest of the team behind him was just too big. Meant the ball didn't stay up top and just kept coming back again and it was very frustrating to watch.

I know Brown has this desire to be unconventional but that formation just isn't right for me and I still don't think he really knows what his best starting 11 is. I'm happy to play a conventional 4-4-2 if we have two strikers on the pitch. I'm guessing he feels 4-5-1 is a way to get all of his preferred players into the starting 11 (I know we have a lot of quality central midfielders and this formation allows him to start with 3 of them) but I don't think it brings out the best in us and ends up stunting us a little bit. I still think we have one of the strongest and most talented squads in the division but this formation just doesn't bring out the best in them. I get the feeling the squad will never fulfill its collective potential when it lines up in that formation.

And I hate protecting the ball in the corner to run down the clock at home against 10 men!

Good goal from Shaq but he wasn't as good as everyone made out. He got about but he's so frustrating with the ball at his feet, shows far too much of it and is too easily dispossessed.

Bentley 6 - not because he was poor, just nowt to do!

White 7.5 - best performance for a while
Prosser 7.5 - impressively solid
Thompson 8 - growing in confidence
Williams 7 - defended well and got forward but distribution poor

Deegan 8 - protected the back 4 brilliantly and was everywhere, really makes a difference
Payne 6 - played way too deep to cause the problems and be the nuisance he can be
Clifford 7 - solid
Hurst 7 - getting back somewhere close to his best, good in possession and good crosses
Coulthirst 6.5 - good goal. Good work rate but positioning off the ball, decision-making and ability to keep possession seriously let's him down

Weston 5 - one to forget. Definitely not a striker, even less of one when he's on his own up there

Atkinson 6.5 - didn't see too much of the ball but good energy. Thought Worrall was better choice
Corr 6 - missed good chance to double lead with header right at keeper. Too many offsides
Bolger 6 - not enough time





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[Magnum PI]

Very good game, both sides played good football, we shaded it on chances and did well to get a valuable win against one of the sides who will be up there this season. I don't think a win against a team like that and a 5-point advantage over them now is anything to be unhappy about at all.

I do still have serious reservations about our formation though, which I think holds us back from scoring more and ends up making matches too nervy for us. I'm just don't like one up front, it's a little negative for me, and that is made worse by the fact that Brown didn't start the game with an out-and-out striker. Weston is a winger, as much as he claims to hate playing out there, and I don't see Coulhirst as an out-and-out striker either. Corr makes a good attempt at playing the lone striker role but for the most part, I think that the lone striker role requires a skill set that the average League 2 striker doesn't have and places demands on him that he isn't quite good enough to burden. Shaq and Hursty stayed out wide mostly and Payne wasn't getting forward enough to play off Weston, so the ball just wasn't sticking up top. Every time Weston or Corr produced a poor first touch or failed to win a header, there was once again no-one following in to win the second ball because the gap between our lone striker and the rest of the team behind him was just too big. Meant the ball didn't stay up top and just kept coming back again and it was very frustrating to watch.

I know Brown has this desire to be unconventional but that formation just isn't right for me and I still don't think he really knows what his best starting 11 is. I'm happy to play a conventional 4-4-2 if we have two strikers on the pitch. I'm guessing he feels 4-5-1 is a way to get all of his preferred players into the starting 11 (I know we have a lot of quality central midfielders and his formation allows him to start with 3 of them) but I don't think it brings out the best in us and ends up stunting us a little bit. I still think we have one of the strongest and most talented squads in the division but this formation just doesn't bring out the best in them.

And I hate protecting the ball in the corner to run down the clock at home against 10 men!

Good goal from Shaq but he wasn't as good as everyone made out. He got about but he's so frustrating with the ball at his feet, shows far too much of it and is too easily dispossessed.

Bentley 6 - not because he was poor, just nowt to do!

White 7.5 - best performance for a while
Prosser 7.5 - impressively solid
Thompson 8 - growing in confidence
Williams 7 - defended well and got forward but distribution poor

Deegan 8 - protected the back 4 brilliantly and was everywhere, really makes a difference
Payne 6 - played way too deep to cause the problems and be the nuisance he can be
Clifford 7 - solid
Hurst 7 - getting back somewhere close to his best, good in possession and good crosses
Coulthirst 6.5 - good goal. Good work rate but positioning off the ball, decision-making and ability to keep possession seriously let's him down

Weston 5 - one to forget. Definitely not a striker, even less of one when he's on his own up there

Atkinson 6.5 - didn't see too much of the ball but good energy. Thought Worrall was better choice
Corr 6 - missed good chance to double lead with header right at keeper. Too many offsides
Bolger 6 - not enough time





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Worrall was not on the bench. He had flu

 

[Medway Blue]

Worrall was not on the bench. He had flu

Ah that's fair enough, I missed the squad announcement at the start of the game so I didn't realize that!


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[Magnum PI]

Completely agree about Weston. Too idle to play centre forward on his own and once he moved to wing after subs he actually got involved in game although by that time his confidence and touch had deserted him.

 

[Jam_Man]

I do still have serious reservations about our formation though, which I think holds us back from scoring more and ends up making matches too nervy for us. I'm just don't like one up front, it's a little negative for me, and that is made worse by the fact that Brown didn't start the game with an out-and-out striker. Weston is a winger, as much as he claims to hate playing out there, and I don't see Coulhirst as an out-and-out striker either.

Coulthirst and Weston would class themsevles as strikers, whether we agree is another thing!

As for the formation, I still dont know why people class having one up front as defensive , half the premier league including Arsenal play it. Would you class Arsenal as defensive?

Its not the system that defines your attacking/defensive outlook its how you play and the players you deploy. I cant see how having a front three of Weston/Hurst and Coulthirst with Payne in the middle can be classed as being defensive.

 

[LennySUFC]

Having seen the footy league show can I just say that the header from shaq is up there with the best I've ever seen! In the words of Steve Clarridge "he must have neck muscles bigger than my biceps".

Does anyone remember a better headed goal? Francis Laurent debut glancing header is up there

 

[Medway Blue]

As for the formation, I dont know why people class having one up front as defensive , half the premier league including Arsenal play it. Would you class Arsenal as defensive?

Its not the system that defines your attacking/defensive outlook its how you play. There was nothing defensive about how we played yesterday.

You can't compare a League 2 team's ability to play that formation to a Premier League team's ability to play it. Premier League forwards have the ability to play up front alone. Besides, my problem isn't that it's negative so much, more that the ball just doesn't stick in the final third of the pitch or around the opposition penalty area because there aren't enough of our players there! So I don't think we are fulfilling our attacking potential, we are more likely to score goals with 2 up front and then games will be less of a nervy affair with a 1-goal lead.


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[Medway Blue]

Having seen the footy league show can I just say that the header from shaq is up there with the best I've ever seen! In the words of Steve Clarridge "he must have neck muscles bigger than my biceps".

Does anyone remember a better headed goal? Francis Laurent debut glancing header is up there

HRK's at home to Swansea in 07-08 and Carruthers at home to Brighton in 00-01 are two which spring to mind


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[Jam_Man]

You can't compare a League 2 team's ability to play that formation to a Premier League team's ability to play it. Premier League forwards have the ability to play up front alone. Besides, my problem isn't that it's negative so much, more that the ball just doesn't stick in the final third of the pitch or around the opposition penalty area because there aren't enough of our players there! So I don't think we are fulfilling our attacking potential, we are more likely to score goals with 2 up front and then games will be less of a nervy affair with a 1-goal lead.


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In the premier league the striker doesnt play alone. Arsenal have Welbeck and you have the likes of Oxlade/Sanchez playing right up with him, theres no reason league two players cant do the same.

And the players we played in those 4 attacking positions? You cant say we set out defensively with Hurst/Payne/Weston and Coulthirst up front.

We didnt score more goals yesterday because we were playing a very good side, not because we were too defensive. (Even then Coulthirst could have had at least one more from two far post headers and Weston should have done better when he hit the keeper)

Add to that they packed the midfield and were very good, Id hate to see what would happen if we took a central midfielder out of the team yesterday, we would have been overrun.

 

[Medway Blue]

In the premier league the striker doesnt play alone. Arsenal have Welbeck and you have the likes of Oxlade/Sanchez playing right up with him, theres no reason league two players cant do the same.

And the players we played in those 4 attacking positions? You cant say we set out defensively with Hurst/Payne/Weston and Coulthirst up front.

We didnt score more goals yesterday because we were playing a very good side, not because we were too defensive. (Even then Coulthirst could have had at least one more from two far post headers and Weston should have done better when he hit the keeper)

Add to that they packed the midfield and were very good, Id hate to see what would happen if we took a central midfielder out of the team yesterday, we would have been overrun.

Sanchez and to a lesser extent Chamberlain play as inside forwards, they regularly come in off the wing so that it really does turn into a front 2 or 3. That isn't happening with us, Shaq came into the middle but only really when the ball was on the opposite side of the pitch, and Hurst stayed out wide. So the formation is not working in the same way that it works for Arsenal.

Shrewsbury are a good side, but that explanation for not scoring many goals with this formation doesn't account for a home draw with a very poor Oxford side, a home loss to a very average Wimbledon side, a draw against a very poor Carlisle side.....where were the goals against those teams? Especially in the two home games! We used the same formation in those matches. We didn't even look like scoring against Portsmouth til Corr put it away at the second attempt from a set-piece. Luckily that shattered their confidence so much that we were able to score a second from open play.

You are missing my point a little bit. I mentioned the word negative because I do think that setting up in a way which means we're not scoring many goals is a little negative. But I've made no mention of us being defensive anywhere. We are not a defensive side, our style of play is very much attacking, but for me that counts for little when we don't have enough players operating around and in the penalty box. And I certainly don't think Payne can be described as part of a front 4 when he's playing so deep. The midfield 3 are set up in a line but Payne would be more effective playing in the attacking midfielder position so that he can play off that lone striker, be a nuisance further forward and win some of those second balls. Deegan and Clifford are more than capable of playing deep to allow Payne to be further forward, and Payne can track back to help out if he needs to.


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[Barling Magna]

Morecambe's Rabbits.....

don't we have a rather bad history in league games with Morecambe???

Our record against Morecambe in the League is 7 defeats and one draw out of eight games. Good grief!!

So, if we beat Morecambe next weekend we really will be on course for the automatics.

Things could be really tight at the end of the season. Who are we playing in our final match............. we're away to Morecambe. Oh dear....

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

And I hate protecting the ball in the corner to run down the clock at home against 10 men!

I'll second that, I said I'll second that.

Hash tag: Attackisthebestformofdefence

 

[rlb999]

Kevin Ellison is the player. Yep does cause defenders a problem.

One of the few opposition players you notice at this level. A bit like Akinfenwa - always upsets the opponents fans, and half the reason for that is that he's a half decent player - the type you love to hate!

 

[Ricky Otto]

I thought Shrewsbury were very good in the first half and their energy and closing down didn't allow us to play. We weren't keeping possession in midfield and some wayward passes were putting the back four under a lot of sustained pressure, to keep a clean sheet was impressive. Williams I will single out for praise as he handled several two on one situations very well with a calm heads and good positioning. Thought the midfield were poor, we really lost the battle of the middle. Shaq made a few bad decisions but overall had a decent game and kudos on the finish

 

[Pubey]

Having seen the footy league show can I just say that the header from shaq is up there with the best I've ever seen! In the words of Steve Clarridge "he must have neck muscles bigger than my biceps".

Does anyone remember a better headed goal? Francis Laurent debut glancing header is up there

Vaguely remember Bailey scoring one at home from edge of the box which was an absolute beauty.

 

[spoons]

Seen the highlights, surely that is goal of the season, wonderful deep cross and Coulthirst scoring with a brilliant header. Shrewsbury went close a couple of times. Andy Mangan would probably have been carded in a rugby match for his diabolical body slam into Bentley which could have caused serious injury.
Going well now as the team has evolved albeit with loanees, and confidence must be building now.:smile:

 

[* ORM *]

I'll second that, I said I'll second that

Thanks Foghorn

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Seen the highlights, surely that is goal of the season, wonderful deep cross and Coulthirst scoring with a brilliant header.

Errhh. I would say Sharky's goal against Portsmouth was more of a candidate for goal of the month ..........

 

[shrimpled]

HRK's at home to Swansea in 07-08 and Carruthers at home to Brighton in 00-01 are two which spring to mind


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Also, Nicky Bailey vs Millwall