MEP Elections

[Massimo Giovanni]

I would think that a threat of change to the current political system would be welcomed by most; obviously an improvement MUST be a big hope with a shake up because of UKIP's rise.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So they are not offering a referendum as a matter of course?

As I'm sure you're fully aware, official Labour/LibDem policy is that they would only be prepared to offer a referendum, (as I stated), if there are major constutional changes to the Treaty of Rome, in the future.

Given that the EU might well have to resort to some sort of increased federalism to resolve the Euro crisis in the not so distant future,that would automatically trigger an EU referendum under existing British law,whichever political party were in power.

I would think that a threat of change to the current political system would be welcomed by most; obviously an improvement MUST be a big hope with a shake up because of UKIP's rise.

.

Sadly,I think it's unlikely that we'll see any real change in the British political system any time soon (with the possible exception of a coalition between Labour/LibDems,of course-or who knows, maybe even an outright Labour win,albeit with a small majority).:smile:

That's largely because -as Thorpe Groyney suggests-the British public has been sold a pup (by the British media) as to the real importance of UKIP as a national party.

Quite frankly,I'd be astonished if UKIP were to win any more than one seat (NF at Thanet East) in next year's G/E.

 

[callan]

As I'm sure you're fully aware, official Labour/LibDem policy is that they would only be prepared to offer a referendum, (as I stated), if there are major constutional changes to the Treaty of Rome, in the future.

Given that the EU might well have to resort to some sort of increased federalism to resolve the Euro crisis in the not so distant future,that would automatically trigger an EU referendum under existing British law,whichever political party were in power.

.

You still haven't answered the question as to why you believe that UKIP are a threat to democracy?

And to say that Lib dems / Labour are offering a referendum is a farce....as you point out they will simply comply with Existing British law....they don't offer anything we dont already have!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You still haven't answered the question as to why you believe that UKIP are a threat to democracy?

And to say that Lib dems / Labour are offering a referendum is a farce....as you point out they will simply comply with Existing British law....they don't offer anything we dont already have!

Rabble raising and pandering to people's fears about unemployment,immigration,race etc is always a potential threat to democracy.

It's only 70 years since the D day landings and not much further back than that when the Nazis took power.

As I implied above,however, I trust in the good sense of the British people (and the first past the post electoral system) to see off the threat that UKIP poses at the next G/E.

 

[callan]

Rabble raising and pandering to people's fears about unemployment,immigration,race etc is always a potential threat to democracy.

It's only 70 years since the D day landings and not much further back than that when the Nazis took power.

As I implied above, I trust in the good sense of the British people (and the first past the post electoral system) to see off the threat that UKIP poses at the next G/E.

So aren't labour concerned about immigration, unemployment then?

I always thought the 2nd world war was about a fight for democracy?...and yet our democratic rights are being surrendered to the EU.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So aren't labour concerned about immigration, unemployment then?

Too concerned to echo UKIP ,IMO, as far as immigration is concerned.Since immigration between EU member states cannot be controlled by any one member state.

It's not an issue in Germany (which attracts many of Europe's best graduates) or Spain,why is it such an issue in the UK?

As far as unemployment is concerned, I would expect Labour to make a manifesto commitment to abolish (or severely restrict) zero hours contracts in the near future.

I always thought the 2nd world war was about a fight for democracy?...and yet our democratic rights are being surrendered to the EU.

Precisely which of "our democratic rights",which we fought for in WW2, are "being surrendered to the EU", in your opinion and how?

 

[callan]

Too concerned to echo UKIP ,IMO, as far as immigration is concerned.Since immigration between EU member states cannot be controlled by any one member state.

It's not an issue in Germany (which attracts many of Europe's best graduates) or Spain,why is it such an issue in the UK?

As far as unemployment is concerned, I would expect Labour to make a manifesto commitment to abolish (or severely restrict) zero hours contracts in the near future.



Precisely which of "our democratic rights",which we fought for in WW2, are "being surrendered to the EU", in your opinion and how?

German cities are suffering with the effects of immigration, so it is in an issue....however the Germans are not afraid to deal with it, and I believe that they will be limiting residency rights for job seekers from EU member states.
If there wasn't a problem why would they do that?

The EU has power in many areas vital to our freedom. It can force us to implement laws to which our government is opposed, to which the majority in parliament is opposed, and against the will of the majority of the British people.
We now face a fundamental choice as a people. Do we allow the erosion of our democracy to continue? Or do we take back the responsibility that earlier generations wrenched from the grasp of recalcitrant absolute rulers?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

German cities are suffering with the effects of immigration, so it is in an issue....however the Germans are not afraid to deal with it, and I believe that they will be limiting residency rights for job seekers from EU member states.
If there wasn't a problem why would they do that?

If Germany were to limit residency rights for EU job seekers, then that legislation would have to be approved at European rather than national level.In other words,Britain and ,of course, other EU states would have the same rights.

The EU has power in many areas vital to our freedom. It can force us to implement laws to which our government is opposed, to which the majority in parliament is opposed, and against the will of the majority of the British people.

Vague.
What "power in many areas vital to our freedom" does the EU actually have and which laws "can it force us to implement which "our government is opposed" to?"

We now face a fundamental choice as a people. Do we allow the erosion of our democracy to continue? Or do we take back the responsibility that earlier generations wrenched from the grasp of recalcitrant absolute rulers?

Magna Carta was some time ago now.

 

[callan]

Magna Carta was some time ago now.

Democracy can be traced all the way back to the Greeks, perhaps it isn't modern enough for you?

If Germany were to limit residency rights for EU job seekers, then that legislation would have to be approved at European rather than national level.In other words,Britain and ,of course, other EU states would have the same rights.

That may well be, and I note that you are not contesting that they are doing it because of 'immigration problems', which you originally asserted they didn't have.


Vague.
What "power in many areas vital to our freedom" does the EU actually have and which laws "can it force us to implement which "our government is opposed" to?"

The essence of a democratic system is to be able to dismiss the government of the day and demand an immediate election whenever there is good reason for supposing that the government does not reflect the views of the majority

This cannot be said of the EU, despite the fig-leaf of accountability the European Parliament is meant to provide, and yet Brussels has become the ultimate authority in significant areas of British affairs. Open Europe estimates as much as 72% of the cost of regulation in the UK is the result of EU decisions. Countless regulations whose future effects can only be guessed at are constantly being forced into law after the barest examination by parliament. The EU officials who drafted them never face the British electorate; the Brussels bureaucrat has taken on the role of the absolute monarch / dictator.

To me that is a loss of freedom.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Democracy can be traced all the way back to the Greeks, perhaps it isn't modern enough for you?

Unfortunately, most of us live in communities which are somewhat larger than the Greek "polis" (or city/state) these days,which, of course, is precisely why representative democracy first came into being.

 

[callan]

Unfortunately, most of us live in communities which are somewhat larger than the Greek "polis" (or city/state) these days,which, of course, is precisely why representative democracy first came into being.

The European Commission is an entirely appointed institution, not democratically elected, and it has the monopoly of proposing laws: there is no competition over who has political authority and sets the agenda at the European level.
EU citizens do not get a choice over who is part of this powerful body, and the Commission is only accountable to the European Parliament in its entirety: individual Commissioners who are performing badly cannot be sacked. The Commission lacks legitimacy: it is much too powerful for an institution that is not democratically representative of the EU citizens or accountable to them.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Just had a e-mail concerning the UKIP Regional Conference next Saturday which I would like to attend. Slight problem though, it's being held at........... I can hardly bring myself to say it

























































Colchester Football Ground [Weston Homes Community Stadium] :'( I feel dirty.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The European Commission is an entirely appointed institution, not democratically elected, and it has the monopoly of proposing laws: there is no competition over who has political authority and sets the agenda at the European level.
EU citizens do not get a choice over who is part of this powerful body, and the Commission is only accountable to the European Parliament in its entirety: individual Commissioners who are performing badly cannot be sacked. The Commission lacks legitimacy: it is much too powerful for an institution that is not democratically representative of the EU citizens or accountable to them.

Just seen UKIP's ex-MEP Godfrey Bloom on the Daily Politics.He had two top tips if UKIP are going to win any seats at the next G/E

1) Drop the Presidential style of leadership-it's just not British.

2)Find some more issues to talk about on the doorstop, other than the EU and immigration.

 

[GrumpyBlue]

Just had a e-mail concerning the UKIP Regional Conference next Saturday which I would like to attend. Slight problem though, it's being held at........... I can hardly bring myself to say it

























































Colchester Football Ground [Weston Homes Community Stadium] :'( I feel dirty.

That`ll teach you :winking:

 

[Benfleet A1]

Just seen UKIP's ex-MEP Godfrey Bloom on the Daily Politics.He had two top tips if UKIP are going to win any seats at the next G/E

1) Drop the Presidential style of leadership-it's just not British.

2)Find some more issues to talk about on the doorstop, other than the EU and immigration.

Just remind us all. Where can we find the new General Election manifesto from the Labour Party, Lib Dems and Tories. Just so I can brush up on what they are talking about at the moment. While you're about it, can you direct us to the Greens manifesto as well.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Just remind us all. Where can we find the new General Election manifesto from the Labour Party, Lib Dems and Tories. Just so I can brush up on what they are talking about at the moment. While you're about it, can you direct us to the Greens manifesto as well.

You forgot to include UKIP's G/E 2015 manifesto.That's not out yet, either.

Patience.:tease:

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Just seen UKIP's ex-MEP Godfrey Bloom on the Daily Politics.He had two top tips if UKIP are going to win any seats at the next G/E

1) Drop the Presidential style of leadership-it's just not British.

2)Find some more issues to talk about on the doorstop, other than the EU and immigration.

So you are in agreement with Godfrey Bloom then? scraping the barrel a bit here aren't we...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you are in agreement with Godfrey Bloom then? scraping the barrel a bit here aren't we...

Hardly.:hilarious:

Just thought he was ofering some useful advice to UKIP, which I doubt they'll take on board-especially the Presidential style of leadership bit.

They are very much a one man band.Rather like Brazil with Neimar, really.

 

[callan]

Hardly.:hilarious:

Just thought he was ofering some useful advice to UKIP which I doubt they'll take on board-especially the Presidential style of leadership bit.

They are very much a one man band.Rather like Brazil with Neimar, really.

So you do agree with Godfrey bloom then.
And you are now comparing Farage's political ability with one of the worlds most skillfull players, and UKIP Wth one of the worlds best teams.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you do agree with Godfrey bloom then.
And you are now comparing Farage's political ability with one of the worlds most skillfull players, and UKIP Wth one of the worlds best teams.

Bloom was giving NF practical advice,which (as I said) I doubt he'll take.

According to GB, that's why he was booted out of UKIP, (and not for the Crick incident).

UKIP are a long way from Prem.level, let alone from achieving Brazil's individual or collective class.