Hard or Soft Brexit?

[callan]

What is clear is, that both the UK -with respect to EU workers in the UK- and the EU with respect to UK nationals in the EU- are using ordinary people as "bargaining chips."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...p-thats-closing-on-britons-who-live-in-europe

You haven't thought this through, have you?

You are blaming Brexit for a brain drain, then post a link about a group of UK ex pat Professionals living in Germany since the early nineties.

Quote from your link;

The group is anxious that the voice of British working professionals who live in Europe is not drowned out by the better known challenges facing the likes of pensioners on the Costa del Sol.

Unquote

So what you have managed to do here Barna, is make your original assertion that Brexit is causing a Brain drain a complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You haven't thought this through, have you?

You are blaming Brexit for a brain drain, then post a link about a group of UK ex pat Professionals living in Germany since the early nineties.

Quote from your link;

The group is anxious that the voice of British working professionals who live in Europe is not drowned out by the better known challenges facing the likes of pensioners on the Costa del Sol.

Unquote

So what you have managed to do here Barna, is make your original assertion that Brexit is causing a Brain drain a complete and utter nonsense.

And what you have managed to do, is completely ignore my assertion that the UK has let down EU nationals in the UK and the EU British nationals in the EU, by refusing to guarantee their status post-Brexit before negotiations begin in September.

 

[callan]

And what you have managed to do, is completely ignore my assertion that the UK has let down EU nationals in the UK and the EU British nationals in the EU, by refusing to guarantee their status post-Brexit before negotiations begin in September.

I ignored it as it had nothing to do with the Brain drain chat we were having :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I ignored it as it had nothing to do with the Brain drain chat we were having :winking:

It's connected but anecdotal,while respecting EU and UK citizens' rights is much more pertinent to the current situation,nearly one year on from the referendum!

 

[callan]

It's connected but anecdotal,while respecting EU and UK citizens' rights is much more pertinent to the current situation.

No, lets call it for what it was...an attempt to divert attention away from what was an absolute howler even by your own high standards:smile:

In terms of those affected by ....have the EU agreed that full rights for UK citizens is a given before negotiations commence?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No, lets call it for what it was...an attempt to divert attention away from what was an absolute howler even by your own high standards:smile:

In terms of those affected by ....have the EU agreed that full rights for UK citizens is a given before negotiations commence?

Surely,it would be much easier for the UK (regarded as one country by the EU) to unilaterally guarantee the 2.5/3 million EU workers' rights in the UK, rather than for the other 27 countries comprising the EU, to guarantee the rights of the 1.1/1.2 million Brits living in the EU?

 

[callan]

Surely,it would be much easier for the UK (regarded as one country by the EU) to unilaterally guarantee the 2.5/3 million EU workers' rights in the UK, rather than for the other 27 countries comprising the EU, to guarantee the rights of the 1.1/1.2 million Brits living in the EU?

I'm not sure what your point is with regard the ease of which something can be agreed?

The UK should be able to expect a reciprocal deal should it not, for its own citizens?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm not sure what your point is with regard the ease of which something can be agreed?

The UK should be able to expect a reciprocal deal should it not, for its own citizens?

Clearly,when the UK leaves the EU, it should be relatively straightforward for us to guarantee EU workers in the UK their current rights under European law, since they won't (presumably) stop being EU citizens.UK citizens living in the EU will.Therein lies the problem.

 

[rigsby]

Clearly,when the UK leaves the EU, it should be relatively straightforward for us to guarantee EU workers in the UK their current rights under European law, since they won't (presumably) stop being EU citizens.UK citizens living in the EU will.Therein lies the problem.

Why should we, they are not all workers. What about those that have committed rape or never worked since the day they got here. No the last thing we need to do is guarantee the rights of ALL 3m Europeans. Only the ones worth keeping.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Why should we, they are not all workers. What about those that have committed rape or never worked since the day they got here. No the last thing we need to do is guarantee the rights of ALL 3m Europeans. Only the ones worth keeping.

Good job you're not in charge of negotiations.:winking:

 

[rigsby]

Good job you're not in charge of negotiations.:winking:

Saulius Zilinkas thinks the same thing. He has just been sentenced to 20 years for terrifying young women in Essex and East London with rapes and attempted murder.

The whole sorry case follows a familiar pattern. He was wanted for Raping a 16 year old girl in his native Lithuania so he does what lots of EU criminals do, he flees to Britain. We catch him and send him back and he goes to prison. When he comes out what does he do......Back to Britain for a life of benefits, rape and free health care.

When is inevitably released early from his sentence do you think he should be able to stay ?

 

[Bielzibubz]

And we come full circle and right back to this little nugget again. The free movement of 'people', however many that may be and regardless of their intentions once here, and the free movement of 'labour' for those with jobs and want to integrate and contribute to the UK economy and society in general.

Some people seem to forget that there is a distinct difference between the two. And again we'll have the same stone wall of silence by certain people when asked to justify the current and woeful system failings and shortcomings as highlighted by the above post.

 

[callan]

Clearly,when the UK leaves the EU, it should be relatively straightforward for us to guarantee EU workers in the UK their current rights under European law, since they won't (presumably) stop being EU citizens.UK citizens living in the EU will.Therein lies the problem.

If it's as simple as you suggest....then why cant the EU do the same?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If it's as simple as you suggest....then why cant the EU do the same?

Because there are 27 other member states -other than the UK-who'd have to reach agreement.

Don't think I suggested it would be "simple" BTW, though it would certainly be much easier for the UK to make a unilateral decision, than it would for the other 27 EU countries to reach agreement collectively.There's also the question of the moral high ground here.After all it's the UK that wants to leave the EU.

 

[callan]

Because there are 27 other member states -other than the UK-who'd have to reach agreement.

Don't think I suggested it would be "simple" BTW, though it would certainly be much easier for the UK to make a unilateral decision, than it would for the other 27 EU countries to reach agreement collectively.There's also the question of the moral high ground here.After all it's the UK that wants to leave the EU.

This is nonsense.

The 27 remaining members have had a year now to reach a common position....so again why cant this be done?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

This is nonsense.

The 27 remaining members have had a year now to reach a common position....so again why cant this be done?

No.You'll remember Article 50 was only triggered by the UK quite recently, on March 29 2017.

So your question should really be, why did the UK take so long to trigger Article 50?

 

[callan]

No.You'll remember Article 50 was only triggered by the UK quite recently, on March 29 2017.

So your question should really be, why did the UK take so long to trigger Article 50?

No my question remains, why cant the EU commit to protecting UK citizens that live in the EU....your best answer so far is because there are 27 members of the EU!

 

[MK Shrimper]

I see multi-millionaire Jeremy Hoskins is going to fund a political campaign to try and oust 140 Remain MPs....a) This is not democracy and b) Makes you wonder why the very rich are so keen for a hard Brexit? I'm sure it's got nothing to do with making the life better of the common man or woman and everything to do with feathering their own already over-plump nests.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No my question remains, why cant the EU commit to protecting UK citizens that live in the EU....your best answer so far is because there are 27 members of the EU!

My answer was why can't the UK,which is only one country (as far as the EU is concerned), commit unilaterally to protect EU citizens living and working in the UK? After all there are far more of them than UK citizens living in other EU countries.We're also told that EU workers in the UK are essential to the smooth running of the NHS,care homes etc

Roll on September!

Edit.Yet again you seem to be ignoring the fact that it's the UK which has decided to leave the EU.Why not take the moral high ground here?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Saulius Zilinkas thinks the same thing. He has just been sentenced to 20 years for terrifying young women in Essex and East London with rapes and attempted murder.

The whole sorry case follows a familiar pattern. He was wanted for Raping a 16 year old girl in his native Lithuania so he does what lots of EU criminals do, he flees to Britain. We catch him and send him back and he goes to prison. When he comes out what does he do......Back to Britain for a life of benefits, rape and free health care.

When is inevitably released early from his sentence do you think he should be able to stay ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ritain-terrorists-schengen-information-system

You might want to think about the implications for the UK of pulling out of the EU's SIS system.