Brexit negotiations thread

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Please refrain from personal insults mate - thanks.

Spoilsport.

 

[Rob Noxious]

Anyone would think that EU politics could be described by Clash song titles alone.

I think they've been eclipsed by this one, "big in Brussels and one hell of an album" (BOJO magazine):

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Shouldn't there be a barometer recording the degree of sournessness on May's face? Yesterday reached levels I've never seen before in her meeing with Juncker. Talk about hell! ...........this certainly isn't a relationship made in heaven........and to think, Valentine's Day is only a short time away. No awkward and forced 'bisous,' just a VERY stiff and cold handshake. I don't know about Britain 'wanting out of Europe' but May certainly does, if it means she hasn't got to go back to Brussels again. By her body language 'burning in hell' appears a far more preferable option! The press pack obvioulsy found the whole short episode hilarious and seemed to revel in her discomfort.............................they must have all been from the Mirror, Guardian and Independent.

The clip is actually quit short and starts at about 4m15sec

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47161550

Wonder if Theresa will have better luck with the Irish PM?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It was the Budesbank and the Banque de France alone that set this whole sorry Euro experiment in motion with an idea first formed in 1968 and then that idea came more to fruition after 71 when America (Nixon) pulled the financial rug out from under Europe. Yes the banking system has been around for millenia, well done Sherlock for pointing out the bleedin obvious. The EU and more specifically The Troika and it's subservient and compliant minions scattered all across Europe are solely responsible for the crippling austerity measures that have been foisted onto a number of member nation states these past 10 years or so.

While I would certainly agree with you in the case of Greece, I really don't think it applies to the "haircut" imposed on Ireland,Portugal and Spain.The fact that these three countries are no longer in recession would appear to indicate that the EU's rough medicine has worked.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

From the FT - a UK trade deal with Japan looks like being worse for the the one the UK currently enjoy with Japan as members of EU. Not surprisingly really, it's economies of scale.

They trade negotiators don't help themselves when they come out with things like:

'The spokesperson added that the UK was “making good progress on securing deals” and cited agreements with Chile and the Faroe Islands.'

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5ce60af2-2b90-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

From the FT - a UK trade deal with Japan looks like being worse for the the one the UK currently enjoy with Japan as members of EU. Not surprisingly really, it's economies of scale.

They trade negotiators don't help themselves when they come out with things like:

'The spokesperson added that the UK was “making good progress on securing deals” and cited agreements with Chile and the Faroe Islands.'

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5ce60af2-2b90-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7

Waiting for a seashells deal with the Seychelles.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Would anyone that's spent the last dozen pages or so slagging May and the government off (and understandably so I might add) care to spend a few minutes condoning and sticking up for the EU and its truly shocking and monumentally corrupt, and not to mention technically illegal' acts towards Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland this past decade? And that's just for starters.

And please, no 'oh we know it's no perfect' blah blah blah replies. That's all we've had anytime myself or anyone else has brought up the subject and someone has actually bothered to reply.

You want remain therefore it stands to reason you must be in favour and agree with the way in which they've treated others, yes?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Would anyone that's spent the last dozen pages or so slagging May and the government off (and understandably so I might add) care to spend a few minutes condoning and sticking up for the EU and its truly shocking and monumentally corrupt, and not to mention technically illegal' acts towards Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland this past decade? And that's just for starters.

And please, no 'oh we know it's no perfect' blah blah blah replies. That's all we've had anytime myself or anyone else has brought up the subject and someone has actually bothered to reply.

You want remain therefore it stands to reason you must be in favour and agree with the way in which they've treated others, yes?

I never wanted to remain because of the EU, I wanted to remain because the Tories would **** up the process of leaving and that would be far more damaging than staying.

 

[Bielzibubz]

A complete non answer. Thank you A S S.

Although how you can see 10, 15, 20 years into the future is beyond me.

Just like JC, party politics before country.

 

[blues exile]

While I would certainly agree with you in the case of Greece, I really don't think it applies to the "haircut" imposed on Ireland,Portugal and Spain.The fact that these three countries are no longer in recession would appear to indicate that the EU's rough medicine has worked.

Don't muddy the waters with facts, that spoils the narrative!

A complete non answer. Thank you A S S.

Although how you can see 10, 15, 20 years into the future is beyond me.

Just like JC, party politics before country.

Empty slogans like that add nothing to the debate. Explain in what way JC is 'putting party before country' by suggesting a way out of the impasse that May's red lines have created.

 

[Swiss Tony]

Don't muddy the waters with facts, that spoils the narrative!

Empty slogans like that add nothing to the debate. Explain in what way JC is 'putting party before country' by suggesting a way out of the impasse that May's red lines have created.

Drop the debating nonsence you talk of and admit it's all about having the last word,your turn.

 

[blues exile]

Drop the debating nonsence you talk of and admit it's all about having the last word,your turn.

That seems to be the current response to any attempt at a serious debate, accusing the poster of wanting the last word.

 

[blues exile]

Seaborne Freight just had its contract cancelled. Is there no limit to this government's, and Grayling's in particular, sheer incompetence?

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Seaborne Freight just had its contract cancelled. Is there no limit to this government's, and Grayling's in particular, sheer incompetence?

You really couldn't make this stuff up. Seaborne Freight only existed on paper as a start up business with no assets and no ships or ferries. There must have been an almighty backhander, or some other explanation to give it a £13.8 Million contract. The man behind it already had a dodgy past, knocking shipping firms and the tax man. How did it ever pass the due diligence test? As time was running out, the penny finally dropped with the Government that they would be nowhere near ready in the case of a no deal Brexit. They still had no assets, no ships and no ferries. This contract was a risk from day one. And yet just a month ago Chris Grayling defended the Seaborne Freight contract, insisting it was "not a risk". Now the government has to start again with only a few weeks to go and find some other shipping firm. Unbelievable.

 

[Bielzibubz]

While I would certainly agree with you in the case of Greece, I really don't think it applies to the "haircut" imposed on Ireland,Portugal and Spain.The fact that these three countries are no longer in recession would appear to indicate that the EU's rough medicine has worked.

1. So in the case of Greece the pain it's people had to and continue to endure in order to save the Euro was worth it was it? Ends justify the means?

2. The mountains of unserviceable debt these countries were forced to enter into through MoU's in order to once again bail out and save the EU and the Euro from ruin has nothing to do with that countries financial surplice. In 2015 Ireland was running a national surplice of 2% but still owed billions and billions of dept to the ECB and IMF that it was trying to service through tough austerity measures at home, amongst other things.

Vincent Browne v The ECB

I'm done now. People who don't want to see never will see. No matter how corrupt, immoral and undemocratic the EU there are those that just plain refuse to see it. If it were a company it would have been shut down years ago and its leaders would be behind bars by now. It makes Bernie Madoff look like a Sunday school charity tin thief.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

A complete non answer. Thank you A S S.

Although how you can see 10, 15, 20 years into the future is beyond me.

Just like JC, party politics before country.

To say we shouldn't leave the EU because the government will **** up the process of leaving the EU is all about the good of the country and not about party politics.

 

[Bielzibubz]

To say we shouldn't leave the EU because the government will **** up the process of leaving the EU is all about the good of the country and not about party politics.

But you didn't know the government would **** up the process as they have when the referendum was put to the people and you voted to remain. You couldn't know. Therefore in part your vote was based on your hatred of the Tory party and thus party politically motivated. Granted it's what you believed but that shouldn't have been the reason to vote the way you did. Your vote should have been based on factors such as does the EU act for the benefit and on behalf of ALL the people of all the member states in a democratic and transparent way and has it got a history of doing just that?

That's possibly symptomatic of a great many people that voted remain. Unable or unwilling to do the historical research necessary in order to make an informed and well balanced decision.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

1. So in the case of Greece the pain it's people had to and continue to endure in order to save the Euro was worth it was it? Ends justify the means?

2. The mountains of unserviceable debt these countries were forced to enter into through MoU's in order to once again bail out and save the EU and the Euro from ruin has nothing to do with that countries financial surplice. In 2015 Ireland was running a national surplice of 2% but still owed billions and billions of dept to the ECB and IMF that it was trying to service through tough austerity measures at home, amongst other things.

Vincent Browne v The ECB

I'm done now. People who don't want to see never will see. No matter how corrupt, immoral and undemocratic the EU there are those that just plain refuse to see it. If it were a company it would have been shut down years ago and its leaders would be behind bars by now. It makes Bernie Madoff look like a Sunday school charity tin thief.

Although I disagree with you on most Brexit matters, I have read most of your posts on this thread and they appear to be well researched and thought provoking, which I thank you for.
Recently though, your posts have been bitter and you seem to have gone all 'Rigsby' on us. You used to be better than that!!!

 

[Bielzibubz]

Although I disagree with you on most Brexit matters, I have read most of your posts on this thread and they appear to be well researched and thought provoking, which I thank you for.
Recently though, your posts have been bitter and you seem to have gone all 'Rigsby' on us. You used to be better than that!!!

To be honest I've found myself becoming more and more angry with the whole process of late and if I'm becoming a little 'Rigsby' it's probably because on this particular matter (the EU, Euro and it's failings) he and I broadly agree on a hell of a lot of things and now I find myself voicing mine with more vigour. It's also because I'm beginning to see my vote being devoid of any meaning when and if we leave the EU in name only.

I assume, rightly or wrongly, Rigsby's opinions on this are borne out of either recent in depth research or like me years of having a keen interest in recent European history. Which I might add was formulated by a general need to look beyond what the main stream media was dishing out and feeding us daily sinse 2008/09.

And thank you for the compliment.