Powell, Brown & Campbell?

[Tangled up in Blue]

GBJ, with all due respect, your perspective of Sol is clearly blinkered with an agenda because of your alleged sources. But the reality is that Sol (I mentioned this in another thread) has actually statistically improved us.

He took our goal ratio down from conceding 3 goals a game to 1.9 and got us creating 7% more chances than Bond/waddock ever did. Also from the eye test our team has evidently more fight and basic fitness that we have seen in a while.

To do the above with all the nonsense that currently surrounds our club is slightly impressive. Who remembers when Parkinson walked out of Bolton cause they could only play u23s and he couldnt win a game? Sol won us 3 games.

Very marginally IIRC and still to less than a point a game (relegation form in any league).

The "eye test" that you mention didn't really improve results that much,perfomances yes.

Very much doubt if SC will be here at the beginning next season,anyway.Good riddance.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Right.

He plays them. Did he have much choice in that? Did he say, screw the senior lot, I’m throwing the youngsters in? Did he say, these lads are the future? Did he say he trusted and had faith in his young players?

No. He said - repeatedly - that he was stuck in a hard situation, where many of the players wouldn’t be playing if he had other options, but he had to make do with what he had.

Do you think, if Campbell has the choice, many of these players would form the spine of our starting XI next season?

Can you explain what steps they’ve taken under Sol? I mean, I don’t think you’re suggesting that these lads abilities have grown exponentially under Sol’s 18-weeks of tutelage. I’m generally curious as to what steps they’ve made.

Of the list that you gave...

- Elvis & Kelman were already showing great signs of potential, and were already on the radars of bigger clubs. Have they progressed under Sol, or are they progressing at the expected rate?

- Gard has played 160 minutes of first team football under Sol and had been trained under Sol for about 2-3 weeks. Not sure what progressions he made in that time.

- Phillips was also was in and around the first team training sessions for about 3 weeks, and managed 170 minutes of first team football. Again, hard to quantify any progressions he made under Sol

- Clifford wasn’t even in contention until injuries forced his recall.

- Egbri, Kinali & MMN are not currently ready for Lg2 football (let alone Lg1)

I think Elvis is progressing more than I was expecting. I queried Sol's decision to play him centre-half but I hold my hands up: I got that one wrong and Sol was right. I think Sol's decision was helping Elvis develop as a player. Kelman's season was interrupted by injury but he's getting more exposure than he would under certain managers mentioned in this thread.

Gard has progressed to the first team. He's improved each game. Same with Harry Phillips. Limited sample size admittedly but it's huge giving them the opportunity. They seemed to have known their assignments and played as a team.

Clifford might have needed injuries to get his chance but he's taken it. We had injuries earlier this season before Sol came in and he wasn't given an opportunity to take as Bond and Waddock both preferred Andre Blackman.

You'd clearly given up watching because Egbri and Kinali had taken big strides forward in our last matches before lockdown. Miles Mitchell-Nelson played well. He might not be the finished article but he can - and did - contribute at L1 level. I wouldn't have him start next season as starter but he should get opportunities and he may not give the shirt back.

If you want to know players who can't contribute at L2 level look at the likes of Ridgewell and Blackman.

 

[GBJ]

GBJ, with all due respect, your perspective of Sol is clearly blinkered with an agenda because of your alleged sources.

That’s probably correct. But when you consider that my sources are the actual players themselves, I think it counts for slightly more than just a blinkered agenda.
FWIW, I look at it that I’m simply relaying the current thoughts and feelings that the players have.

People have the choice to accept it, or not.

But the reality is that Sol (I mentioned this in another thread) has actually statistically improved us.

He took our goal ratio down from conceding 3 goals a game to 1.9 and got us creating 7% more chances than Bond/waddock ever did. Also from the eye test our team has evidently more fight and basic fitness that we have seen in a while.

Sorry, but I can’t look at that statistic and see anything other than a shambles. If doesn’t really matter if we’re conceeding two goals or three goals per game, the fact is we were still shipping goals, and essentially, that’s why we were relegated.

Sol’s record speaks for itself.....

P23 W4 D5 L16

That’s a losing percentage of 70%.

We lose 7 times out of 10, under Sol.

How can anyone can suggest that percentage should be seen as anything other than disastrous, is beyond me.

To do the above with all the nonsense that currently surrounds our club is slightly impressive. Who remembers when Parkinson walked out of Bolton cause they could only play u23s and he couldnt win a game? Sol won us 3 games.

Look, credit to anyone who gets on board this driverless train, but lauding Sol for this season is counterproductive to the future of the club, IMO.

He’s had his go and he’s failed (with what he’s had), and now it’s time for an overhaul.

I’ve seen nothing from Sol’s leadership to encourage me, his wages are astronomical, and his behaviour isn’t conducive of what I represent with Southend United Football Club.

 

[GBJ]

I think Elvis is progressing more than I was expecting. I queried Sol's decision to play him centre-half but I hold my hands up: I got that one wrong and Sol was right. I think Sol's decision was helping Elvis develop as a player. Kelman's season was interrupted by injury but he's getting more exposure than he would under certain managers mentioned in this thread.

Again, those two were already on the radar’s of decent teams, and as you know, we will do well to hold onto them this summer.

I thought they would both be gone In January tbh, but it would appear that Ron held firm.

Gard has progressed to the first team. He's improved each game. Same with Harry Phillips. Limited sample size admittedly but it's huge giving them the opportunity. They seemed to have known their assignments and played as a team.

They only played in 2 games each. 160 minutes & 170 minutes respectively.

Gard has already played first team football for us (albeit brief) and had been around the first team in training long before Sol arrived.

They trained for a couple of weeks under Sol. I’m not accepting that it was his tutelage that turned them into the players we know ?

FWIW, I do think they’re decent talents that we should be desperately trying to tie down to extended contracts though.

Clifford might have needed injuries to get his chance but he's taken it. We had injuries earlier this season before Sol came in and he wasn't given an opportunity to take as Bond and Waddock both preferred Andre Blackman.

Before Clifford came in, to counter the injuries Sol was playing 3-5-2 with WB’s.

Sol preferred to change the formation, than give him a look.

You’re right though, he’s taken his chance and has something about him.

You'd clearly given up watching because Egbri and Kinali had taken big strides forward in our last matches before lockdown. Miles Mitchell-Nelson played well. He might not be the finished article but he can - and did - contribute at L1 level. I wouldn't have him start next season as starter but he should get opportunities and he may not give the shirt back.

No, sadly I was right there until the end. I’m interested to see their progression, but for right now they’re not ready. That’s evident.

If you want to know players who can't contribute at L2 level look at the likes of Ridgewell and Blackman.

I agree wholeheartedly there.

 

[Fairport]

Interesting to hear various posters opinion on Sol Campbell. Personally, I don't particularly like the bloke and would not be at all surprised if most of the players feel the same way. I am not too sure if he will ever be a successful manager given what we know. Too be fair to him he has been dealt an awful hand since he has been here. None of us really knows if he will have a good managerial career ahead of him whether he stays with SUFC or not.

 

[Ricey]

Campbell and his coaches are a perfect fit for Bolton in my opinion. Big name for a fairly big club with premier league stadium and training facilities. It would mean we unloading £180,000 + per annum wage bill. And we could then bring in a decent young manager to bring on our youthies. Love to have Maher back alongside maybe current U23/18 coaches. With Ricky Duncan or Tilly as football director.

Not sure where you got that number from but it’s much much more than that!

 

[Chalky]

That’s probably correct. But when you consider that my sources are the actual players themselves, I think it counts for slightly more than just a blinkered agenda.
FWIW, I look at it that I’m simply relaying the current thoughts and feelings that the players have.

People have the choice to accept it, or not.



Sorry, but I can’t look at that statistic and see anything other than a shambles. If doesn’t really matter if we’re conceeding two goals or three goals per game, the fact is we were still shipping goals, and essentially, that’s why we were relegated.

Sol’s record speaks for itself.....

P23 W4 D5 L16

That’s a losing percentage of 70%.

We lose 7 times out of 10, under Sol.

How can anyone can suggest that percentage should be seen as anything other than disastrous, is beyond me.



Look, credit to anyone who gets on board this driverless train, but lauding Sol for this season is counterproductive to the future of the club, IMO.

He’s had his go and he’s failed (with what he’s had), and now it’s time for an overhaul.

I’ve seen nothing from Sol’s leadership to encourage me, his wages are astronomical, and his behaviour isn’t conducive of what I represent with Southend United Football Club.

"He's had his go and failed" If you count having a go as inheriting a all but relegated team with 8 players leaving, being told he will sign 6 and then end up in a embargo signing no players you a are a very hard man to please.

You say you cant look at that statistic but at the end of the day, facts dont care about your feelings, he has improved us.

Im aware of his record so far with us, of course its not great. But thats the point, a manager needs time and preferably, deserves the chance to...you know...actually sign players of his own. Just an idea.

We desperately need stability. For example Charlie Kelman is only 18 years old and has already played under 3/4 different managers (Chris Powell, Kevin Bond, Garry Waddock and Sol Campbell) to suggest we need yet another 'overhaul' is just baseless, naive and serves no benefit to the players.

You say you know players, well guess what, your not the only one. Callum Taylor (under 23s GK) went to my secondary school, my cousin still attends. Callum Taylor got asked to go back and do a presentation in an assembly for one of the year groups. He got asked what working under Sol was like, he literally said that everyone got a instant boost of having his presence around place.

Which isnt really a surprise considering Timothee Dieng has improved recently, Mark Milligan started getting praise on here (people offered to drive Mark to the nearest train station to leave our club, he was that bad at the start) ....Its...almost...as if Sol has improved us??

 

[Ricey]

"He's had his go and failed" If you count having a go as inheriting a all but relegated team with 8 players leaving, being told he will sign 6 and then end up in a embargo signing no players you a are a very hard man to please.

You say you cant look at that statistic but at the end of the day, facts dont care about your feelings, he has improved us.

Im aware of his record so far with us, of course its not great. But thats the point, a manager needs time and preferably, deserves the chance to...you know...actually sign players of his own. Just an idea.

It’s not always about the affect the manager has on the pitch. The players are playing for themselves certainly not the manager!

 

[Napster]

It’s not always about the affect the manager has on the pitch. The players are playing for themselves certainly not the manager!

so why didnt they do that in the previous 12 months?

 

[Chalky]

It’s not always about the affect the manager has on the pitch. The players are playing for themselves certainly not the manager!

Well that works as well doesnt it? As long they start playing and upping their performances on the pitch thats all matters. But to suggest Sol has not played a part in that is just wholly unfair.

Can you imagine if Sol logged on here out of curiosity? Seeing the state of agendas on here would make him utterly confused. Literally walked into a cancer of a club, lost 8 players, signed none, statistically improved them in a short space of time with a development team and people spouting "Good riddance".

Make it make sense.

 

[Ricey]

so why didnt they do that in the previous 12 months?

Its almost a different squad playing from when Sol took over. He’s had to play kids and he got rid of the majority of the ‘bad apples’. These kids are getting their chance to show what they can do. That’s not for Sol!

 

[Ricey]

Well that works as well doesnt it? As long they start playing and upping their performances on the pitch thats all matters. But to suggest Sol has not played a part in that is just wholly unfair.

Can you imagine if Sol logged on here out of curiosity? Seeing the state of agendas on here would make him utterly confused. Literally walked into a cancer of a club, lost 8 players, signed none, statistically improved them in a short space of time with a development team and people spouting "Good riddance".

Make it make sense.

He’s too busy with Instagram to bother with logging on here.

 

[Chalky]

He’s too busy with Instagram to bother with logging on here.

Lol, I hear you. I get that his selfies are not to peoples liking, but its just a cheap, unrelated shot which has no bearing on actual football. Its 2020, times have changed. Social media is fortunately/unfortunately part of life.

 

[CMRandall92]

Phil Brown for me out of the three.....never got the funds promised by our chairman due to new ground not coming as promised so had to do the job on a small budget.

Small budget!? It’s his squad and superior budget that has us on the brink of administration

 

[OldBlueLady]

Right. That’s just a list of players.

My question was specific. What are the great things Campbell does with them, as per the original statement.

Certainly of those original ones listed, Brown was the one who started Bwomono, and I think Chris started Gard and Phillips.

Chris' biggest problem, apart from injuries, was having favourites amongst the players.

Small budget!? It’s his squad and superior budget that has us on the brink of administration

Is it? I'd have put that down to Powell.

 

[CMRandall92]

Is it? I'd have put that down to Powell.

I guarantee you Kiernan, cox, turner, Ferdinand, Kightly even josh wright cost a lot more in wages then the likes of Ladapo, Mantom, dieng etc

 

[thenobster]

in answer to your original question.... of those three...........as much as it pains me to say it..................................................Brown

 

[GBJ]

"He's had his go and failed" If you count having a go as inheriting a all but relegated team with 8 players leaving, being told he will sign 6 and then end up in a embargo signing no players you a are a very hard man to please.

I count having a go, as taking charge of a team for half of the season.

I’d consider failure to be a losing 70% of those games.

We can debate the circumstances around that, sure, but those are the statistical facts that matter. It’s irrelevant that he brought our goals against ratio down to 2 per game, from 2.7, because essentially, we were still relegated.
It’s literally the same as losing 2-0, and saying at least it wasn’t 3-0. A loss it a loss.

You say you cant look at that statistic but at the end of the day, facts dont care about your feelings, he has improved us.

You know what mate, you’re spot on. He has improved us. Under Bond & Waddock, we had a losing percentage of 78%, and under Sol we managed to bring that down to a mere 70%.

Such an improvement.

Now we only lose 7 games out of 10, instead of 8.

Im aware of his record so far with us, of course its not great. But thats the point, a manager needs time and preferably, deserves the chance to...you know...actually sign players of his own. Just an idea.

Yes absolutely. In normal circumstances. But sadly, these are not normal circumstances.

Next season we will go into a situation, which is financially very precarious for the club. We need to cut our costs immensely. We began to do so in January, but we still have a long way to go. Sol and his team are very expensive, and the “financial gymnastics” that brought them into the club, would cripple us in Lg2.

We desperately need stability. For example Charlie Kelman is only 18 years old and has already played under 3/4 different managers (Chris Powell, Kevin Bond, Garry Waddock and Sol Campbell) to suggest we need yet another 'overhaul' is just baseless, naive and serves no benefit to the players.

Ok mate, let’s agree to disagree. I’ve made my stance clear on what I know, if you don’t want to believe me, it’s no bother.

[You say you know players, well guess what, your not the only one. Callum Taylor (under 23s GK) went to my secondary school, my cousin still attends. Callum Taylor got asked to go back and do a presentation in an assembly for one of the year groups. He got asked what working under Sol was like, he literally said that everyone got a instant boost of having his presence around place.

Haha what did you expect him to say publicly? That Sol is a ****?

Why don’t you ask Callum how he and the rest feel about Campbell’s training routines & methods.

Which isnt really a surprise considering Timothee Dieng has improved recently, Mark Milligan started getting praise on here (people offered to drive Mark to the nearest train station to leave our club, he was that bad at the start) ....Its...almost...as if Sol has improved us??

Ok mate. Sol has improved us because we got relegated with a slightly reduced goals against percentage.

Oh and as for Milly, maybe you should ask him what he thinks of it all.

 

[GBJ]

He’s too busy with Instagram to bother with logging on here.

Now now, people will get the wrong idea ?

 

[Rayleigh boy]

Well that works as well doesnt it? As long they start playing and upping their performances on the pitch thats all matters. But to suggest Sol has not played a part in that is just wholly unfair.

Can you imagine if Sol logged on here out of curiosity? Seeing the state of agendas on here would make him utterly confused. Literally walked into a cancer of a club, lost 8 players, signed none, statistically improved them in a short space of time with a development team and people spouting "Good riddance".

Make it make sense.

There is this weird thing at SUFC ... a strange mentality that sort of prefers failure and low expectation. The hostility to Sol is really really odd - its like listening to Spurs fans.

And the smears and insinuations...

Oh well ... life goes on and at the moment avoiding despair is where I am at