Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 0-4 Chesterfield

[hlane17]

I posted before seeing this, but that’s exactly how I saw it Mr. Scotsman. We can’t both be wrong, can we?

Can say the same from my seat in the East Black. I think people might be misinterpreting the boos, these coincided with the 'safety' announcements.

 

[GBJ]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1446987437289484293

you can clearly see, no steward (security help) was punched and that he pushed the guy over the wall!

Ron was obviously anticipating a potentially raucous crowd yesterday, hence the employment of the extra security.

Not sure how it was around the west and south stands, but there was a very obvious presence in the main car park outside the East, and they didn’t look like they were there to help direct people to their seats

Lessons weren’t learned from Tuesday. It was obvious something like this would happen eventually. I said on here after the Eastleigh game that the decision to rip the banner away from the fans was a dangerous call to make.

I understand these guys have a job to do, but risk assessment 101 would indicate that under no circumstances should they engage in any acts against the fans that could be deemed antagonistic or violent. The potential for a flash point was very high.

Ron wasn’t there yesterday, but I hope he gets to see this video. That guy could have died in that fall.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Thank you for the condescending "dear Mass" Chrissie Pooh.

This situation WE, as a club, and as SUPPORTERS are in is one that requires unity and not disharmony, which was a big impact result of some of the poor behaviour yesterday.

As to the answer(s)?

It is cliche but "chicken and egg" fashion as to what comes (or goes?) first.

The club own nothing but the name and now a NFL status which could, possibly be sold to a franchise as was W/Don to MK. I am sure no SUFC fan wants that.

The rest IS owned, lock, stock barrel AND contestable debt by RM; and commercially he can do as he wants with his assets subject to planning permission and covenants: not great news, not an easy swallow but the way it is.

Also the state of Roots Hall is decrepit, creaking and not far short of beyond not fit for continued use.

What is stopping the FF? firstly the financial collapse, then other plugs being pulled, then council "wish" lists, some NIMBY factors and lots of barely hidden financial exploitation by SBC.

20plus years the council have put up hurdles, yes Ron is far from blameless BUT the bottom line for me is get the FF started. Then MONEY will start moving, feel good starts, progress starts, belief starts.

Get FF finished and Ron goes, steps back etc.

SO, target the council, target the planners, target the press, put pressure on them, vote at elections, e mail your Councillors, check their views, their votes.

Don't fudge with scripts and lore of "can't we keep The Hall".

I have spoke with Ron a few times over his tenure and I doubt anything will get him to walk away. And he isn't ideal, he has faults, he make repeated mistakes, he is ego walking etc, he is, now, a football supporter of SUFC, he is better than many and worse than many BUT aren't we all?

I have tried to keep my answer direct but it is a 30 year problem in the making which we all can guess would not have happened if, IF, FF had been built 25,20,15.10 or 5 years ago AND SBC are largely to blame for that not happening.

Wasn't meant to be condescending, so sorry, there.
But the first five paragraphs are well known.

And 'He is now a football supporter', I doubt.
Of course he has to say he supports the club but his day to day running of same is abysmal.
His choice of managers, worse.

His untouchable status was underscored by Thursday Zoom meeting comments that were illuminating.

One minute he says he's a supporter, and four later, he says he wants his £20m back.
Understandable, but it shows where he's at with SUFC.

The ground issue is vital, agreed, but now because it means Ron walks away, and he will won't he?
We'll see then how many games he turns up to.

Even given the FF saga, it's his hubris in dispensing with a CEO and being absent at crucial moments over the last two seasons that shows what he thinks about running a football club.

 

[hlane17]

Ron wasn’t there yesterday, but I hope he gets to see this video. That guy could have died in that fall.

This for me is the most important thing. Protest or no protest, that push should never have happened.

He lands on his head and the steward is very fortunate that he was relatively okay.

Would be truly harrowing if we had a manslaughter case off the back of a day that is already memorable for all the wrong reasons.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Ron was obviously anticipating a potentially raucous crowd yesterday, hence the employment of the extra security.

Not sure how it was around the west and south stands, but there was a very obvious presence in the main car park outside the East, and they didn’t look like they were there to help direct people to their seats

Lessons weren’t learned from Tuesday. It was obvious something like this would happen eventually. I said on here after the Eastleigh game that the decision to rip the banner away from the fans was a dangerous call to make.

I understand these guys have a job to do, but risk assessment 101 would indicate that under no circumstances should they engage in any acts against the fans that could be deemed antagonistic or violent. The potential for a flash point was very high.

Ron wasn’t there yesterday, but I hope he gets to see this video. That guy could have died in that fall.

Just as the video cup starts, the fan that got injured has his arm raised. If someone raised their arm to me, I'd be pushing them off.
If we wasn't trying to get on the field of play, he wouldn't have got hurt

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Forgetting everything else, as this thread is supposed to be about what went on in the game…. I thought we were the better team if anything until the goal went in and then heads dropped. Let’s be honest though, Brown’s idiotic team selection messed things up for us before the whistle even went.

Arnold - I thought he could’ve done better with the third and he seemed to be caught by surprise with the second, but he’s the least I’d our issues and won’t be bettered as our number one for the season.

Demetriou - He did ok for me and although he’s not the player he was, he’s still doing alright at right back.

Hobson - He seems to have suffered this season and doesn’t look the player he did last year. Brown surprisingly ditching him at the start of the season probably didn’t help. We know he’s more than good enough though.

Ralph - Probably the pick of the back four, although it was poor defending to not only allow the player to get by him but to then foul him for the penalty. Too good for this league.

Sayers - I thought he looked a bit out of his depth to be fair, but he’s 17 and he’s come into this carnage and it can’t be easy for him. He didn’t seem like he was adjusted to the pace of the game.

Atkinson - I feel for Will, he’s really not even a shadow of what he was before. It’ll hurt him too and he looked pretty devastated whilst left as the only one in the dugout when the protests were going on. He really struggled yesterday and everything seemed too quick for him. I can’t see him staying on now that Brown has gone.

Dunne - He spent the first half complaining to the manager about the front two. He’d be fine in front of the back four in a midfield three, but yesterday showed again that he struggles when there’s only one other next to him. He’s got the heart but not the legs.

Ferguson - I think there is actually a player in there, it’s just whether he wants to be a player. There were bursts yesterday when he put his foot in or went forward with a bit of menace, but that’s the problem, it’s generally only in bursts.

Bridge - It was a little bit painful how we relied on him to be our only attacking threat, giving him the ball every single time we went forward. He reminds a little of Mark Gower in the type of player that he’s turned into, so let’s just hope he can have a similar impact when things “settle”.

Kargbo - I don’t think he’s as bad as some would like to suggest, but he’s just very easy to notice with the fact he’s 6ft 7. He won a few headers, but yes, he looks a little lost to be fair. The thing is he’s probably never had to put too much effort against youngsters his age, so he’s probably suffering with a right culture shock now that experienced lumps are dragging him all over the shop.

Kimpioka - He barely saw the ball, but every so often it looked as if he might be someone to provide a spark and a bit of space, so it’ll be interesting to see how things go with him as time goes on.

That Kargbo well over first-half header was poor.
It lacked technique and awareness, and let's face it, he's been a mistake.
I note there is no comment on the subs?
I already asked whether Egbri actually touched the ball, lol?

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

That Kargbo well over first-half header was poor.
It lacked technique and awareness, and let's face it, he's been a mistake.
I note there is no comment on the subs?
I already asked whether Egbri actually touched the ball, lol?

Yeah he touched the ball but mainly just ran into dead ends or ended up on his backside. The game was lost well before the subs were introduced and they struggled .. understandably - to make any impact.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Just as the video cup starts, the fan that got injured has his arm raised. If someone raised their arm to me, I'd be pushing them off.
If we wasn't trying to get on the field of play, he wouldn't have got hurt

Actually, if you go frame by frame, it's the capped steward's right hand who is pushing at the fan.
The fan tries to push it away, and that's followed by the push over the wall.
If the stewards had planned ahead, they might have had the strategy to deal with a protest they'd already seen on Tuesday.
Instead, far from pro-active, they don't really know what to do? Confiscate the banner? Usher the fans back? Fight with them?
Yeah, I know the limitations of the job, but all the same, it didn't look very professional.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Yeah he touched the ball but mainly just ran into dead ends or ended up on his backside. The game was lost well before the subs were introduced and they struggled .. understandably - to make any impact.

Unfortunately that is the reoccurring way of Tyrell's game, either runs into a cul de sac or beats 2 and loses possession to the third.
He was wrong sub yesterday, in a wrong line up, AND imo, is behind Bridge, Akinola, Rush, Walsh for a place wide midfield.

 

[GBJ]

Just as the video cup starts, the fan that got injured has his arm raised. If someone raised their arm to me, I'd be pushing them off.
If we wasn't trying to get on the field of play, he wouldn't have got hurt

I disagree mate. When the video starts, you can clearly see the security/steward grabbing the fan. It’s certainly not as one-sided as the fan raising his arm.



One thing is for certain, nobody should risk losing their life for the crime of entering the field of play.

We know it’s wrong & I’m not condoning it.

I’m not going to condemn it either, as I recognise the extenuating circumstances in this case.

But under no circumstances should that have happened yesterday. Like I said, anyone with half a drop of common sense could see the potential for something like this happening as early as Tuesday night. The new motto for this football club should be “a place where lessons aren’t learned”.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I disagree mate. When the video starts, you can clearly see the security/steward grabbing the fan. It’s certainly not as one-sided as the fan raising his arm.

View attachment 17076

One thing is for certain, nobody should risk losing their life for the crime of entering the field of play.

We know it’s wrong & I’m not condoning it.

I’m not going to condemn it either, as I recognise the extenuating circumstances in this case.

But under no circumstances should that have happened yesterday. Like I said, anyone with half a drop of common sense could see the potential for something like this happening as early as Tuesday night. The new motto for this football club should be “a place where lessons aren’t learned”.

We can't see what happened before the video started recording. Quite often in these cases, the video doesn't start until the stewards retaliate. I know our fans and I know they wouldn't think twice about swinging a punch and you know that too

So the stewards should have let them go on the pitch? Pay for police steward because a bunch of fans think its a good idea to enter the field of play?

I'm sorry but you break the rules, what do you expect will happen? Our fans have a bad enough reputation from the Simon Dobbin incident. Storming the pitch is only going to make that reputation worse.

Protest before the game, get there before RM does and give him both barrels. Protest after the game, wait till he leaves and give him both barrels then too.

 

[GBJ]

So the stewards should have let them go on the pitch? Pay for police steward because a bunch of fans think its a good idea to enter the field of play?

I'm sorry but you break the rules, what do you expect will happen? Our fans have a bad enough reputation from the Simon Dobbin incident. Storming the pitch is only going to make that reputation worse.

Protest before the game, get there before RM does and give him big barrels. Protest after the game, wait till he leaves and give him both barrels then too.

In the moment, If it’s a choice between throwing them over a 5ft wall onto a concrete floor, or allowing them on the pitch, then yes, they should have let them go.

As for reputation, tell me how great our reputation would have been this morning if the national press had run a story about a football fan dying at a game because he was pushed over a 5ft wall onto a concrete floor by an employee of the club.

This, as @Tommy2holes said, all started with security trying to rip that banner away from the fans. That in itself is an antagonistic approach, with the potential to cause a flash point. Again, It’s risk assessment 101. You just don’t do it.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

@GBJ , with the banner, MARTIN OUT,what was it's meaning?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

In the moment, If it’s a choice between throwing them over a 5ft wall onto a concrete floor, or allowing them on the pitch, then yes, they should have let them go.

As for reputation, tell me how great our reputation would have been this morning if the national press had run a story about a football fan dying at a game because he was pushed over a 5ft wall onto a concrete floor by an employee of the club.

This, as @Tommy2holes said, all started with security trying to rip that banner away from the fans. That in itself is an antagonistic approach, with the potential to cause a flash point. Again, It’s risk assessment 101. You just don’t do it.

He wasn't thrown, he steward pushed him back from the confrontation that was going on. Had a fan died, all sorts of questions would have been asked and a few of those that tried to get on the pitch would be just as culpable as the stewards.

I agree the banner shouldn't be removed, unless it can be classed as a safety issue. Whilst within the stand it's not an issue. Once it comes over the stand and onto the walkway, it becomes a hazard.

Let's hope lessons are learned from both sides. The fans need to be protesting in a different scenario

 

[GBJ]

@GBJ , with the banner, MARTIN OUT,what was it's meaning?

Huh?

 

[CanveyCastle]

We can't see what happened before the video started recording. Quite often in these cases, the video doesn't start until the stewards retaliate. I know our fans and I know they wouldn't think twice about swinging a punch and you know that too

So the stewards should have let them go on the pitch? Pay for police steward because a bunch of fans think its a good idea to enter the field of play?

I'm sorry but you break the rules, what do you expect will happen? Our fans have a bad enough reputation from the Simon Dobbin incident. Storming the pitch is only going to make that reputation worse.

Protest before the game, get there before RM does and give him both barrels. Protest after the game, wait till he leaves and give him both barrels then too.

Just a couple of points,

Why were the fans over the wall ? That in itself was an accident waiting to happen.

The capped steward should be held responsible for his actions as the chap pushed over the wall was bloodied and could have easily died -- lucky he didn't.

I may be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be attempts to stop the pitch invasion by security staff. Is that assumption correct ?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

@davewebbsbrain the banner was a catalyst, it could, and should have been displayed in the north west corner BUT that would have been no trouble or problem.
Which is why I ask what the banner was for?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Huh?

The message was clear to read but displaying it ought to not have been an issue so what was it for? What was the intended use by the owner of it?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

@davewebbsbrain the banner was a catalyst, it could, and should have been displayed in the north west corner BUT that would have been no trouble or problem.
Which is why I ask what the banner was for?

That's a very good point and I get exactly what you are saying

 

[GBJ]

He wasn't thrown, he steward pushed him back from the confrontation that was going on. Had a fan died, all sorts of questions would have been asked and a few of those that tried to get on the pitch would be just as culpable as the stewards.

I agree the banner shouldn't be removed, unless it can be classed as a safety issue. Whilst within the stand it's not an issue. Once it comes over the stand and onto the walkway, it becomes a hazard.

Let's hope lessons are learned from both sides. The fans need to be protesting in a different scenario

Thats the issue though, as soon as you put your hands on someone, whether there is intent or not, it’s very possible that harm could occur to that individual.

Did he mean to shove him over the wall in that manner? No, probably not. But as soon as he pushed him, he’d lost control of the situation and the outcome. And you’re right, both the security and fans would have been held accountable. But it shouldn’t have got to that stage.

The question is, did he need to push him? It didn’t particularly look like the fans were trying to advance at that point, and I’m lead to believe that it was due to the security dragging at the banner, that forced the fans - who refused to let go of it - over the wall to begin with (same as Tuesday night).

I fully agree with you that videos can be misleading, and we haven’t seen what’s gone before it, but from what we’ve been told and my view (admittedly a poor one from the East Blacks) both yesterday and Tuesday were the direct result of security interfering. To me, the fans seemed quite content on simply holding it at the front of W Block. Happy to be corrected here, but on Tuesday the fans only came onto the pitch, after the security tried to wrestle the banner from them. Yesterday, it seemed they came on the pitch because of this pushing incident which lead to an angry surge. Again, this all stemmed from trying to get that banner away from the fans.

What is the big deal with them holding a banner, I wonder? I can’t imagine it impedes anyone’s view as nobody sits down in W Block, and It can’t be because of advertising as there is none on the seats. Who gave the order to confiscate it? Why was it such a big deal to stop that banner being brandished? Why were Chesterfield fans allowed to hold it up for the best part of 20 minutes with zero interference?

I’ll say again, I’m not condoning the actions of the fans for going onto the pitch, but to me this wasn’t a planned pitch invasion, and is more a case of cause and effect.