Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 0-4 Chesterfield

[davewebbsbrain]

Just a couple of points,

Why were the fans over the wall ? That in itself was an accident waiting to happen.

The capped steward should be held responsible for his actions as the chap pushed over the wall was bloodied and could have easily died -- lucky he didn't.

I may be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be attempts to stop the pitch invasion by security staff. Is that assumption correct ?

I doubt the called steward meant to push anyone over the wall, probably just trying to push thy guy back as he was quite in the stewards face and I think pushing someone away from you in that situation is a natural defensive reaction?

As for the pitch invasion, unless you steward on a one to one basis, it would be a pointless exercise trying to stop a vast number of fans storming the pitch.

I guess you would also expect fans to behave within the boundaries of the pro game

 

[GBJ]

The message was clear to read but displaying it ought to not have been an issue so what was it for? What was the intended use by the owner of it?

I have no idea mate, it’s not my banner! ?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

@GBJ the Chesterfield fans were not inside the pitch boundary?
You are stating it wasn't a planned pitch invasion BUT surely pushing the banner out and carrying it by several/many persons simultaneously required some planning?

 

[Stuart W]

The message was clear to read but displaying it ought to not have been an issue so what was it for? What was the intended use by the owner of it?

I think Mass, they expect that Ron will hear (for the millionth time), "we want Martin out", and eventually Ron will say "I suppose I had better sell up, I must admit I had never thought before that they wanted me out. I guess they must be right. Ooh, I have made a big mistake, I am so sorry"
IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

Save your breath. Use your surplus energy constructively and come up with a solution that doesn't involve alienating Ron and him shutting the club down.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Thats the issue though, as soon as you put your hands on someone, whether there is intent or not, it’s very possible that harm could occur to that individual

Did he mean to shove him over the wall in that manner? No, probably not. But as soon as he pushed him, he’d lost control of the situation and the outcome. And you’re right, both the security and fans would have been held accountable. But it shouldn’t have got to that stage.

The question is, did he need to push him? It didn’t particularly look like the fans were trying to advance at that point, and I’m lead to believe that it was due to the security dragging at the banner, that forced the fans - who refused to let go of it - over the wall to begin with (same as Tuesday night).
I fully agree with you that videos can be misleading, and we haven’t seen what’s gone before it, but from what we’ve been told and my view (admittedly a poor one from the East Blacks) both yesterday and Tuesday were the direct result of security interfering. To me, the fans seemed quite content on simply holding it at the front of W Block. Happy to be corrected here, but on Tuesday the fans only came onto the pitch, after the security tried to wrestle the banner from them. Yesterday, it seemed they came on the pitch because of this pushing incident which lead to an angry surge. Again, this all stemmed from trying to get that banner away from the fans.

What is the big deal with them holding a banner, I wonder? I can’t imagine it impedes anyone’s view as nobody sits down in W Block, and It can’t be because of advertising as there is none on the seats. Who gave the order to confiscate it? Why was it such a big deal to stop that banner being brandished? Why were Chesterfield fans allowed to hold it up for the best part of 20 minutes with zero interference?

I’ll say again, I’m not condoning the actions of the fans for going onto the pitch, but to me this wasn’t a planned pitch invasion, and is more a case of cause and effect.

Maybe, just maybe, the fan placed his hand on the steward first and then the video captured the steward defending himself. Pushing one way, then the steward pushing back?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I think Mass, they expect that Ron will hear (for the millionth time), "we want Martin out", and eventually Ron will say "I suppose I had better sell up, I must admit I had never thought before that they wanted me out. I guess they must be right. Ooh, I have made a big mistake, I am so sorry"
IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

Save your breath. Use your surplus energy constructively and come up with a solution that doesn't involve alienating Ron and him shutting the club down.

Yes, this reminds me of the BlackAdder sketch where Lord Percy invents "green" in his search to manufacture gold.

 

[GBJ]

@GBJ the Chesterfield fans were not inside the pitch boundary?
You are stating it wasn't a planned pitch invasion BUT surely pushing the banner out and carrying it by several/many persons simultaneously required some planning?

Are you suggesting that the banner is some sort of Trojan Horse, designed and used to facilitate pitch invasions?

I dunno mate, it’s a bit of a stretch.

I’d have thought If people wanted to invade the pitch and disrupt a game, they’d just get on with it, without the need of a gigantic piece of tarpaulin.

 

[rigsby]

In the moment, If it’s a choice between throwing them over a 5ft wall onto a concrete floor, or allowing them on the pitch, then yes, they should have let them go.

As for reputation, tell me how great our reputation would have been this morning if the national press had run a story about a football fan dying at a game because he was pushed over a 5ft wall onto a concrete floor by an employee of the club.

This, as @Tommy2holes said, all started with security trying to rip that banner away from the fans. That in itself is an antagonistic approach, with the potential to cause a flash point. Again, It’s risk assessment 101. You just don’t do it.

There was a coming together and certainly the fan is entitled to go down. But for me he overdid it with a theatrical dive.

Still when SOS sign ageing journeyman protesters looking for one last cause this is the result. Should have never let Dagenham Kev go.

 

[GBJ]

Maybe, just maybe, the fan placed his hand on the steward first and then the video captured the steward defending himself. Pushing one way, then the steward pushing back?

Yes, it’s entirely possible. As I said, I wasn’t there and can only go on my (limited) view and what others have said.

 

[Bazziboo]

From about 5 minutes in thier number 7 (Rowe) had freedom of Roots Hall yesterday. Time and time again ball would go in and he took a step back off his man with no-one tracking him which resulted in him having free shot for opener and this continued till he was left unmarked from corner....defence never picked up on this all game...its bloody basics...see a problem react to it.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I’ll say again, I’m not condoning the actions of the fans for going onto the pitch, but to me this wasn’t a planned pitch invasion, and is more a case of cause and effect.

Sorry Nik, you are definitely wrong there. At half time, several people heard groups discussing getting onto the pitch in the 2nd half, where they were going to try - sussing out the central gangway and also going along the back of the West to try a different route. As it was, they went route 1 again.

 

[Bazziboo]

On a lighter note well played to lad behind me in West who shouted to Maguire as he was about to take throw 'You are what you get when you think you are buying Harry Maguire on Wish.com'

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

Cannot believe no one has laid that steward out tbh. Imagine that’s your dad? Could have killed him

 

[GBJ]

There was a coming together and certainly the fan is entitled to go down. But for me he overdid it with a theatrical dive.

Still when SOS sign ageing journeyman protesters looking for one last cause this is the result. Should have never let Dagenham Kev go.

?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Are you suggesting that the banner is some sort of Trojan Horse, designed and used to facilitate pitch invasions?

I dunno mate, it’s a bit of a stretch.

I’d have thought If people wanted to invade the pitch and disrupt a game, they’d just get on with it, without the need of a gigantic piece of tarpaulin.

More panto horse themed than trojan.
As for thought, I doubt there was too much of that going on, a bit of mob jerk actions seen most games to varied degrees.
Yet still no answer to why the banner was not put on clear, plain, obvious display in north west corner, as to answer that would be to acknowledge that doing that would never have been enough for some of the self proclaimed"diehards"

 

[GBJ]

Sorry Nik, you are definitely wrong there. At half time, several people heard groups discussing getting onto the pitch in the 2nd half, where they were going to try - sussing out the central gangway and also going along the back of the West to try a different route. As it was, they went route 1 again.

Well then that changes things slightly, and I don’t condone that. But still I wonder, would they have got on during the game, if not for the fan pushing incident? I still wouldn’t rule out opportunism in this situation. A perfect storm scenario, if you will.

 

[GBJ]

More panto horse themed than trojan.
As for thought, I doubt there was too much of that going on, a bit of mob jerk actions seen most games to varied degrees.
Yet still no answer to why the banner was not put on clear, plain, obvious display in north west corner, as to answer that would be to acknowledge that doing that would never have been enough for some of the self proclaimed"diehards"

Yes you could be right.

However, I still don’t see the connection between having a banner, and a pitch invasion. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. You can have one without the other.

 

[Stan33]

Don't think the whole squad is that bad, just inept management and tactics which is an issue now resolved. Let's start with the positives, in my opinion the following players are more than good enough:-

Steve Arnold
Nathan Ralph
Tom Clifford (when fit)
Shaun Hobson (okay)
Louis Walsh
Jack Bridge
Nathan Ferguson
Harry Phillips
Rhys Murphy
Sam Dalby

A new manager with a positive attitude (Doesn't throw a new player each week under the bus) who can motivate the above and with some new additions, think we will be okay.

We just need to keep a consistent side playing week in week out with minimal tweeks to the team when necessary.

Chin up....Stan is going to get us Jack Grealish

What about Rush and Akinola ?

 

[Linda Loan Shark]

I think instead of rating the players our fans deserve a 0 rating. Someone could have got seriously injured

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

We can't see what happened before the video started recording. Quite often in these cases, the video doesn't start until the stewards retaliate. I know our fans and I know they wouldn't think twice about swinging a punch and you know that too

So the stewards should have let them go on the pitch? Pay for police steward because a bunch of fans think its a good idea to enter the field of play?

I'm sorry but you break the rules, what do you expect will happen? Our fans have a bad enough reputation from the Simon Dobbin incident. Storming the pitch is only going to make that reputation worse.

Protest before the game, get there before RM does and give him both barrels. Protest after the game, wait till he leaves and give him both barrels then too.

'Wait until he leaves and give him both barrels too.'
So, you mean harass him on the way to his car or similar both before and after?

'I know our fans', as in you know a few, right? I mean, that's impressive if you know all the 6,000 diehards, so this is a presumption, I guess.

I'm not sure there was to be a storming of the pitch until the fracas over the banner broke out.
We'll never know what would have happened had the fans been allowed to hold the banner in front of the wall.

You're right, we can only see what has been recorded, but originally you said you would push someone if they raised their hand to you.

That's patently not the case.

The first push is from the steward, and I'm guessing he's trying to take the banner.