A Vision From Our Future

[Lord Football]

Last night I ended up at Darlington v Lincoln.

A new ground, not sure if we've ever played there. A beautiful piece of architecture. A cracking ground inside. Certainly much better than Colchester. If I could liken it to another ground, its a larger version of the Keepmoat.

Capacity is, I am told, 22000.

It looks very sad when only 1687 turn up. Very sad indeed. Next year it will be the best ground in the Conference.


And thus we consider Fossetts. Another beautiful piece of architecutre with a 22000 capacity, and a club that cannot support that. It's ok if you are playing Championship football, and getting crowds of 10k plus. But frankly put, we are not going to be in that position for some considerable time.

Last night really put the fear of god in me. Here we are investing all our wordly goods into what has the very real potential of being a white elephant. There is no point in having this new ground if we continue to fail to build a side that can at least partially fill it. I do not fancy the prospect of Accrington Stanley at home, in front of 4k, in a ground like that.

I think the time has come to forget this pipe dream for the time dream, start investing in the players that can give us a team worthy to grace such a ground.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Did you see the brick version of Mallard outside, Kerry?

 

[weststander]

Last night I ended up at Darlington v Lincoln.

A new ground, not sure if we've ever played there. A beautiful piece of architecture. A cracking ground inside. Certainly much better than Colchester. If I could liken it to another ground, its a larger version of the Keepmoat.

Capacity is, I am told, 22000.

It looks very sad when only 1687 turn up. Very sad indeed. Next year it will be the best ground in the Conference.


And thus we consider Fossetts. Another beautiful piece of architecutre with a 22000 capacity, and a club that cannot support that. It's ok if you are playing Championship football, and getting crowds of 10k plus. But frankly put, we are not going to be in that position for some considerable time.

Last night really put the fear of god in me. Here we are investing all our wordly goods into what has the very real potential of being a white elephant. There is no point in having this new ground if we continue to fail to build a side that can at least partially fill it. I do not fancy the prospect of Accrington Stanley at home, in front of 4k, in a ground like that.

I think the time has come to forget this pipe dream for the time dream, start investing in the players that can give us a team worthy to grace such a ground.

I take your point but for every Darlington, there is a Swansea, Reading or to a lesser extent Doncaster Mk Dons or even Bolton where moving grounds has been successful and the clubs have thrived.

 

[chapperzUK]

It can go either way. If we can stay up this season and start to rebuild the squad in the summer then we can start looking up again. Spencer looks like a good player with brilliant pace. We have a good midfield in Macca, Grant, Laurent and Moussa. Our defense needs strengthening, but it is good enough for the time being.

 

[Southampton Shrimper]

Yes, we have played there - twice, although we've never scored there. We had a 0-0 draw and then a 4-0 defeat in our last two seasons in League Two.

According to wiki, the capacity is actually 25,500, although they are restricted to 10,000 by the local council due to poor access routes.

As Weststander says, we can't take Darlington as the only example of clubs moving in to a new stadium. Others have used it to their advantage, managed to enjoy more success and increased their attendance accordingly.

Darlington were averaging crowds of less than 4,000 in the seasons leading up to their move, so they didn't have a strong base to start from.

As has been said on these pages so many times, we are so far advanced in our plans - far more advanced than we have ever been over the last 25 years of talking about a new stadium - that it would be madness to put those plans on hold to try and build a team to play in the new stadium. Let's build the stadium first, then build the team for it.

A team lasts a season, a stadium can last a lifetime.

 

[chapperzUK]

Look at Wigan too. Built their DW Stadium (now know as JJB Stadium) in 1999. It is a 25,000 seater and they were in Division 2 (now know as League One) at the time. 4 seasons later they are in the Championship are flirting with the playoff places for a few seasons. Spending 2 seasons there, they got promoted and are now a respected Premiership side.

 

[philtalkin]

Invest in players and every season the good ones will leave (on a free in most cases) and we will struggle to replace them.

I am not saying the new ground will stop them leaving, but if we ever get back in the championship and the crowds increase (which they will) then, with a decent ground, we might be able to keep good solid Championship pros and get some decent loan signings from the Premier clubs.

It isn't easy to accept what is happening at the moment but we have to see this through and hope that the next time we have a team capable of challenging in the championship, we have a ground worthy of the championship.

 

[Jam_Man]

We are not going to get 2000 in Fossetts Farm.

Even this season we will average 7,500 and its been the worst season in years.

If we get 8,000 in Fossetts it will be no worse than when we got 4,000 in Roots Hall.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Look at Wigan too. Built their DW Stadium (now know as JJB Stadium) in 1999. It is a 25,000 seater and they were in Division 2 (now know as League One) at the time. 4 seasons later they are in the Championship are flirting with the playoff places for a few seasons. Spending 2 seasons there, they got promoted and are now a respected Premiership side.

Agreed, and also had a chairman worth mega millions who pumped a load of his cash into the club. Unfortunately, we dont!.

 

[Skyblue]

Personally I think 22,000 in todays day and age is way in excess of our needs. Even if we manage to maintain 8,000 it will still be bl**dy depressing to see all those empty seats. and the atmosphere would suffer terribly. Although its too late now,Would much rather follow Col U example keep the size realistic at say 12-15,000 with the ability to expend into the corners if need be at a later date. 10,000 in RR can really rock but 12,000 in FF will seem like a morgue.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Do they have The Pizza Man at Darlington Arena? The last time I went they had a George Reynolds but it seems to have been taken away.

 

[chapperzUK]

Personally I think 22,000 in todays day and age is way in excess of our needs. Even if we manage to maintain 8,000 it will still be bl**dy depressing to see all those empty seats. and the atmosphere would suffer terribly. Although its too late now,Would much rather follow Col U example keep the size realistic at say 12-15,000 with the ability to expend into the corners if need be at a later date. 10,000 in RR can really rock but 12,000 in FF will seem like a morgue.

To be fair, when we started the plans, we were pushing for a playoff place with a team that was good enough for the championship. Now many of those players have left and our squad has deteriated quite a bit from then.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Agreed, and also had a chairman worth mega millions who pumped a load of his cash into the club. Unfortunately, we dont!.

Yes this is the difference-Dave Whelan, Jon Madjeski, Pete Winkleman, all rich men. You cannot hope to get big crowds and championship football operating on such a shoestring and with only 13/14 permanent players.

 

[colu_mike7]

Viva La Pizzeria! xD :cool:

Seriously your sperm shaped pipe dream abomination will never happen in a million years!:D

Plus with the Hammers moving to the Olympic stadium post 2012 you Shrimps will be lucky to match the mighty Col ewe’s attendances.:support:

 

[Beefy]

I think the time has come to forget this pipe dream for the time dream, start investing in the players that can give us a team worthy to grace such a ground.

Sorry, who exactly will be investing in these players without the pot of gold that is Fossetts Farm being at the end of the rainbow?

Unless you know someone who can buy back Roots Hall and wipe out our debts then the choice isn't Fossetts Farm or a better team - it's Fossetts Farm or no football club.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Plus with the Hammers moving to the Olympic stadium post 2012 you Shrimps will be lucky to match the mighty Col ewe’s attendances.

Spot on. We'll have to be in the Essex Senior League before our attendances plummet that low.

 

[Beefy]

Yes this is the difference-Dave Whelan, Jon Madjeski, Pete Winkleman, all rich men. You cannot hope to get big crowds and championship football operating on such a shoestring and with only 13/14 permanent players.

Majedski barely spent anything personally beyond building the ground. That's why it took them eight or nine years to go from having the new ground to getting to the level that they wanted to be.

Reading are the perfect model for us. Swansea will be there in four or five years too.

 

[Angell Delight]

Sorry, who exactly will be investing in these players without the pot of Gold that is Fossetts Farm being at the end of the rainbow?

Unless you know someone who can buy back Roots Hall and wipe out our debts then the choice isn't Fossetts Farm or a better team - it's Fossetts Farm or no football club.

Absolutely bang on. And people forget that we averaged 10,000 for our season in the Championship and that's at a decrepid Roots Hall not a brand spanking new stadium with the kind of facilities to attract new supporters. With good facilities and a half decent side - the increased football and non-football revenue should help that in time - there's no doubt we can gradually grow as a club in much the same way as the likes of Reading, Hull and Swansea (hell I remember going to Reading's old ground numerous times in the 90's and their gates were slightly smaller than ours at the time!). Remember we also have a huge catchment area and are around 40-odd miles from every other professional club which is a massive advantage as not many clubs have that luxury. There's no doubt in my mind that IF Fossetts Farm is built we can move on to another level. Without the new stadium this club simply cannot survive.

 

[Ron Manager]

I can see Lord Football's fears. I'm not going to say we should stay at Roots Hall forever but we really do need to look at the Darlingtons and Oxfords of this world as well as the Swanseas and Readings. If only to learn lessons from both.

One point I would make, 8,000 people in a 22,000 stadium isn't going to be anywhere near the fantastic experience as 8,000 people inside Roots Hall. The fact is that beyond the hard core support many people go to matches as much to be part of a crowd and sample the atmosphere as for the football itself. That's why a full or nearly full Roots Hall is such a great experience.

Overe here I watch my football in a fantastic state of the art 55,000 seater stadium which would grace any league in the world. Last season crowds of 15-16,000 were commonplace. However in that big stadium it felt like the place was empty and the atmosphere really suffers as a result of this. Because the team did reasonably well the crowds remained OK though.

This season as the team was doing poorly on the pitch the crowds dropped dramatically. I'm sure that if we were in a stadium that was a more reasonable size then the atmosphere within the ground would have meant the attendances wouldn't have dropped so dramatically.

Now I know that's the A-League and a team that's only been in existence 5 years, not one with over a 100 years of history like Southend. However the same principle still applies. Have a poor season on the pitch then many of the people who make up that 8,000 odd may say that the matchday experience rattling around in a stadium that's far too big isn't worth the bother. It's something we have to be wary of.

 

[Beefy]

I think I go to a different Roots Hall than some of you guys.