Adam Barrett - the right time take over as Player Manager?

[spoons]

We were mid table when he came in (when we had the likes of Assombalonga in the side), we are pushing for promotion now.

Treading water would surely be sitting in mid table each season.



Colchester have been appointing from within, not doing them a lot of favours either.



Where does this expectation that we should be top 3 come from?

Two of the teams above us were league one teams last season, one was the winner of the Conference (who more often than not do well the next season) and the other is the play off losers.

I certainly think we should be competing with our new found stability and decent resources, but I dont see any reason why we should be a shoe in to the top 3.

Making a change at this time in the season, when a week ago we were 10 games unbeaten is absurd.

Interesting seeing different views:unsure:

 

[united we stand]

There was a need, we were going to miss out on the play offs and he did it to get us back up there.

Brown has us there and a point of two off the automatics two games ago, so less of a reason to push the button.

Worth bearing in mind when he did do it back then it had no effect whatsoever anyway.

You are always very quick to point out in other peoples posts that we don't know what would have happened in a different scenario. We don't know what would have happened if Sturrock had still been with us so you cant say that we were going to miss out on promotion. In the same way that you think we would have done worse in the league under Sturrock (and at the end of the day we didn't get promoted under Brown so its not like he succeeded) I firmly believe that our Wembley day out would have been far better with Sturrock in charge and we may well now have a trophy - and who is to say how that would have impacted league form and driven us though the pay offs ? None of us know.

Is AB the man for the job- I have no idea. Is Brown over achieving giving the resources at his disposal- I don't think so personally, and I thought that through much of the season including 2 matches ago as well - its not a knee jerk reaction

Phil's job is to get us promoted, not make the play offs or anything else- that is very clear and has been stated numerous times. How much faith do you have in us winning the play offs. I don't have a lot of faith, but I hope I am wrong.

 

[Jam_Man]

But what was to say we weren't going to go on a great run after the final with Sturrock? Changing it just unsettled the camp so it wasn't really needed at that time either!

Because we hadnt been on one for some time.

Our form under Sturrock wasnt going to get us promoted, we were falling, not climbing. We had only won 4 games in 16 matches before he left.

Phil has until the end of the season to get us promoted, at the present he is in a position to still be able to achieve that, Sturrock wasnt when he was let go.

 

[GrumpyBlue]

If we don't get promoted at the end of the season then Brown will be out. I think now is too early to be deciding that, we're in the mix and weirder things have happened than a team in our position now getting automatically promoted, we hit form while one or two of the teams above us slip up and we're there. I think we'll end up in the lottery of the play-offs and who knows what will happen there.

Think it would be harsh to sack Brown now, we're in a position to compete and he needs to see the job out before he can be blamed for missing out if that is what happens. AB may be a candidate should he go in May but RM has tended to prefer experienced managers (with the exception of Tilson who proved himself in his spell as caretaker) and I think he'd go for that kind of option again.

Agree with this - Tilly was a bit of one off/moment in time thing

 

[Blue_Wes]

Wow, we are at a critical point in the season, and we want to replace a manager who has seen us on an excellent run, has us in touching distance of automatics, and firmly in bedded in the play offs, who has us well organised defensively, with an ex player with no managerial experience at all, or even coaching experience at all. And the sole reason we want to disrupt the squad with big changes at such a pivotal time in the season, and when have only lost three in the last sixteen, is because he used to be our captain and supports the club? That's it? Saying that morale boosting the fans is more important managerial nous, is like saying that being young and hungry is more important an attribute than football ability.
Besides, look at Alan Shearer, he was captain, he was Newcastle through and through, he had the added experience of being an international captain, Newcastle still went down. Despite how happy the fans were that their prodigal son was stepping in to save the club. Seldom do changes to management at this stage of the season make any difference, let alone a massive gamble such as this.

It does make me laugh, that some of the people campaigning for change to Brown, (three defeats in sixteen for PB) are saying Sturrock should have been given the chance at Wembley at the expense of our promotion season when Brown was appointed (four wins in sixteen for PS). Shows that it mostly is a decision based on preference rather than for the clubs best interests.

 

[Jam_Man]

Indeed, Sturrocks form when he went was terrible in comparison.

The key point to take from that is whilst his dismissal was more justifited when he was replaced it didnt get better anyway.

Brown is still in a position to get us up, he deserves the chance to do it.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Indeed, Sturrocks form when he went was terrible in comparison.

The key point to take from that is whilst his dismissal was more justifited when he was replaced it didnt get better anyway.

Brown is still in a position to get us up, he deserves the chance to do it.

I think people forget we are a League Two club, operating in League Two, therefore are going to have a League Two manager. League Two manager's will make mistakes, they will not always make the right decisions, and like managers at the top level will have favourites that they rely on (Mourinho admitted he did on Goals on Sunday too).

I also don't understand this God given right we seem to believe we have to promotion, there are a few decent sides in the league this year, Shrewsbury looked very strong, Luton have been backed well, and had a League Two squad before they even arrived here, Burton have been strong for three or four seasons now. Wycombe and Bury were competing at higher level last season, and Plymouth have a strong fan base and are normally expected to be there or thereabouts. Why is it, we believe we should be sweeping these sides away like they don't exist. When you consider the likes of Portsmouth, Tranmere, Oxford and Northampton undermining, the signings even AFC Wimbledon made early on in the season, it's a very competitive league this year, and it's believed we should be waltzing this league without any regard for the opposition, and sacking the manager every time we go a couple of games without winning. The fans behaviour the last couple of seasons is akin to that of a spoilt Premiership fan, not a grounded League Two club fan base, supporting their local team.

 

[Jam_Man]

Totally agree with all of that.

Heard people say we have the best squad in the league, I dont know how people make that judgement, I havent a clue what other squads are like.

With our resources and based on how we did last season I do think we should be comfortably sitting in the play offs and with automatics as a realistic option, which is where we are.

I've never really been blown away by the team under Brown but the results are what matter, and if we don't go up at the end of the season that's when to ask questions.

 

[Ricey]

Totally agree with all of that.

Heard people say we have the best squad in the league, I dont know how people make that judgement, I havent a clue what other squads are like.

With our resources and based on how we did last season I do think we should be comfortably sitting in the play offs and with automatics as a realistic option, which is where we are.

I've never really been blown away by the team under Brown but the results are what matter, and if we don't go up at the end of the season that's when to ask questions.

If we don't go up, Phil has to go it's as simple as that.

 

[Jam_Man]

If we don't go up, Phil has to go it's as simple as that.

So at the beginning of the season was a top 3 finish the only acceptable outcome?

I think if we go to Wembley and narrowly miss out its a bit harsh personally, will be interesting to see what Ron does.

 

[Ricey]

So at the beginning of the season was a top 3 finish the only acceptable outcome?

I think if we go to Wembley and narrowly miss out its a bit harsh personally, will be interesting to see what Ron does.

An acceptable outcome is promotion, don't care how. Brown was brought in to succeed Sturrock who had done a sterling job and unlucky to get us up. He failed to get us up so its Brown's job to do that. He failed when he took over from Sturrock, failed last season and even if we lose in the play off final it's still a fail! If he has been brought in to get us promoted and doesn't this season he should go IMO.

 

[Fairport]

Although we are of course a league two club at the moment many of us feel that we should be in division one given our history and potential fan base. We are therefore under achieving. I am sure that Plymouth, Luton and Portsmouth fans feel the same way. We have spent the vast majority of our time in divisions higher than where we are now and fans are fully entitled to expect better rather than passively say oh well we are a division two club, what do you expect.

 

[enfieldblue]

Although we are of course a league two club at the moment many of us feel that we should be in division one given our history and potential fan base. We are therefore under achieving. I am sure that Plymouth, Luton and Portsmouth fans feel the same way. We have spent the vast majority of our time in divisions higher than where we are now and fans are fully entitled to expect better rather than passively say oh well we are a division two club, what do you expect.

Sorry to doubt you but are you sure? I'll check if I can

 

[Beefy]

A couple of years ago the FT did a great article (centred around an interview with Paul Sturrock actually) in which they broke down team budgets and the position that teams finished in the league, across all four English divisions. The results showed almost a total correlation between amount spent and league position.

Sturrock and Steve Tilson were both shown to be consistent over-achievers in that regard.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/f340caae-47cd-11e1-b646-00144feabdc0.html

And the full lists:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/8dea91a8-481d-11e1-b1b4-00144feabdc0.html

Phil Brown isn't on either list in terms of being an overachiever to budget but he has us roughly where we should be. I'm not privy to the finances of the 24 clubs in the division but looking at the size of the clubs and the squads brought down from League One I'd say that we're probably ranked somewhere 3rd-6th in terms of budget and it is difficult to suggest that Phil Brown is underachieving for as long as he keeps up somewhere between 3rd and 6th in the League.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Because we hadnt been on one for some time.

Our form under Sturrock wasnt going to get us promoted, we were falling, not climbing. We had only won 4 games in 16 matches before he left.

Phil has until the end of the season to get us promoted, at the present he is in a position to still be able to achieve that, Sturrock wasnt when he was let go.

We were falling because of an injury crisis.

Those players came back from injury after the manager change but we barely won. Bradford, who were below us when Brown was appointed, went up.

I think people forget we are a League Two club, operating in League Two, therefore are going to have a League Two manager. League Two manager's will make mistakes, they will not always make the right decisions, and like managers at the top level will have favourites that they rely on (Mourinho admitted he did on Goals on Sunday too).

I also don't understand this God given right we seem to believe we have to promotion, there are a few decent sides in the league this year, Shrewsbury looked very strong, Luton have been backed well, and had a League Two squad before they even arrived here, Burton have been strong for three or four seasons now. Wycombe and Bury were competing at higher level last season, and Plymouth have a strong fan base and are normally expected to be there or thereabouts. Why is it, we believe we should be sweeping these sides away like they don't exist. When you consider the likes of Portsmouth, Tranmere, Oxford and Northampton undermining, the signings even AFC Wimbledon made early on in the season, it's a very competitive league this year, and it's believed we should be waltzing this league without any regard for the opposition, and sacking the manager every time we go a couple of games without winning. The fans behaviour the last couple of seasons is akin to that of a spoilt Premiership fan, not a grounded League Two club fan base, supporting their local team.

I don't expect a god given right to promotion, but I do expect to see a long term plan and grounds for optimism - or even straws to grasp.

Oh and some excitement.

Although there were as many goals at Stevenage as there were in our previous SIX home games combined.

 

[Jam_Man]

We were falling because of an injury crisis.

Those players came back from injury after the manager change but we barely won. Bradford, who were below us when Brown was appointed, went up.

We did have inujury problems nut I bet if Brown had an injury crisis people would be asking why as the manager he didnt deal with it.

Any team with Assombalonga in it should have been far better than 10th.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

We did have inujury problems nut I bet if Brown had an injury crisis people would be asking why as the manager he didnt deal with it.

Any team with Assombalonga in it should have been far better than 10th.

This time three years ago we'd beaten Wycombe away, were 6 points off the automatic promotion spot with a game in hand and a superior goal difference. We'd lost our two previous league matches (after Timlin broke his leg and Phillips and Barker knackered themselves) but prior to that had just 4 defeats in 20+ matches (at least two of which defeats were without Assombalonga).

This year we're 5 points off the automatic promotion but without that game in hand and with an inferior goal difference. But we do have a fit Michael Timlin (albeit the manager keeps on subbing him) and our first choice central defenders (whoever they may be) are all fit. We've lost the two previous league matches but prior to that had just 4 defeats in 20 matches.

Brown therefore has to be 5 matches away from the sack as his record is at best the same as Sturrock's this time the year Sturrock was sacked 5 matches later. Add in that Sturrock's record the previous year was superior to Brown's record last year, we scored more goals under Sturrock, that Sturrock was dealing with probably the worst injury crisis in living memory (we had Spillane at centre-back FFS and a midfield full of loanees who didn't know each others names) and that Sturrock guided us to that first Wembley final.

 

[greyerfox]

Well done Yorkshire for doing the spadework on the Luggy v Brown comparison. Wonder if RM looks at Zone?

 

[Pubey]

This time three years ago we'd beaten Wycombe away, were 6 points off the automatic promotion spot with a game in hand and a superior goal difference. We'd lost our two previous league matches (after Timlin broke his leg and Phillips and Barker knackered themselves) but prior to that had just 4 defeats in 20+ matches (at least two of which defeats were without Assombalonga).

This year we're 5 points off the automatic promotion but without that game in hand and with an inferior goal difference. But we do have a fit Michael Timlin (albeit the manager keeps on subbing him) and our first choice central defenders (whoever they may be) are all fit. We've lost the two previous league matches but prior to that had just 4 defeats in 20 matches.

Brown therefore has to be 5 matches away from the sack as his record is at best the same as Sturrock's this time the year Sturrock was sacked 5 matches later. Add in that Sturrock's record the previous year was superior to Brown's record last year, we scored more goals under Sturrock, that Sturrock was dealing with probably the worst injury crisis in living memory (we had Spillane at centre-back FFS and a midfield full of loanees who didn't know each others names) and that Sturrock guided us to that first Wembley final.

Good stuff. My main issue with brown is that, unlike sturrock, he doesn't seem to really know what he wants and how he plans to get it. His selections and tactics are all over the place but he's not setting them up to beat the team we're playing. Good, creative attacking players have had their instincts curbed or are just below par. He doesn't know what his best team is and he brings in squad players and then publicly slams them when they underperform.

Luggy wasn't perfect, but at least you knew what he was trying to do and the squad bought into that.

 

[Ricey]

Good stuff. My main issue with brown is that, unlike sturrock, he doesn't seem to really know what he wants and how he plans to get it. His selections and tactics are all over the place but he's not setting them up to beat the team we're playing. Good, creative attacking players have had their instincts curbed or are just below par. He doesn't know what his best team is and he brings in squad players and then publicly slams them when they underperform.

Luggy wasn't perfect, but at least you knew what he was trying to do and the squad bought into that.

And he did it with nowhere near the budget and the back room staff Brown has been given!