Adam Barrett - the right time take over as Player Manager?

[RobM]

How much was Brown given? You seem to be in the know...

 

[Ricey]

How much was Brown given? You seem to be in the know...

Enough to pay money for Bolger and bring in players like Barnard, Barrett, Thompson and a loan for O'Toole who was known to be on high wages.

 

[RobM]

That's conjecture.

 

[Ricey]

That's conjecture.

Yes it maybe but did Sturrock pay a transfer fee for anyone? (Straker doesn't count as we were forced to pay that because of his age and was signed for free). Did Sturrock have a high profile number 2 and a chief scout?

 

[Lincolnshire Shrimper]

Good stuff. My main issue with brown is that, unlike sturrock, he doesn't seem to really know what he wants and how he plans to get it. His selections and tactics are all over the place but he's not setting them up to beat the team we're playing. Good, creative attacking players have had their instincts curbed or are just below par. He doesn't know what his best team is and he brings in squad players and then publicly slams them when they underperform.

Luggy wasn't perfect, but at least you knew what he was trying to do and the squad bought into that.

Couldn't agree more with this and another reason why my support for him has steadily waned over the past few weeks. I'm sure there are five or six of the squad who feel the same....not really knowing where they stand come match day.
I know many on here don't rate Luke Prosser. ...but the way he has been continually overlooked has baffled me and must eat away at his confidence.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Well done Yorkshire for doing the spadework on the Luggy v Brown comparison. Wonder if RM looks at Zone?

Tilsons record at this level for us destroys the pair of them. Lower budget, smaller squad, way better quality football and promotion. We were spoilt under him until Ron f'd up.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Phil Brown isn't on either list in terms of being an overachiever to budget but he has us roughly where we should be. I'm not privy to the finances of the 24 clubs in the division but looking at the size of the clubs and the squads brought down from League One I'd say that we're probably ranked somewhere 3rd-6th in terms of budget and it is difficult to suggest that Phil Brown is underachieving for as long as he keeps up somewhere between 3rd and 6th in the League.

Last lot of Liaison Meeting Minutes has Steve Kavanagh quoted as saying :
".......that the Salary Cross Management Protocol (SCMP) findings for League 2 this year show SUFC as only 11[SUP]th[/SUP] in League 2, in terms of turnover."

Not sure "turnover" equates to "budget" particularly well.....

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

How much was Brown given? You seem to be in the know...

The general consensus seems to be we have a much deeper squad this season. That costs.

Part of this may be the way the budget is allocated - I think we've swapped quality for quantity at centre-half for instance as before Barrett joined I doubt any of our centre-halves were on as much as experienced established pros like Barker, Phillips and Cresswell would have been (with a young Prosser backing them up), but we've got six centre-halves in Bolger, Thompson, Prosser, Ibenfeldt, Binnom-Williams and now Barrett vying for two spots.

I'd certainly suggest we started this season on a far higher budget than we started September 2012. In 2012 Ryan Hall and Kane Ferdinand were flogged in August to pay the bills and because of the transfer embargo the much needed midfield reinforcements didn't arrive until the start of November when we signed Laird and Mkandawire on loan (we were 13th at the time). After that point, we're likely to have operated on a similar playing budget to what we're currently on - we probably don't now have too much flexibility because of the wage cap. The overall effect of that would be that Sturrock had a smaller overall budget to work with.

Brown's definitely operating on a far higher managerial budget though having doubled the management headcount with signing Penny and Chief Scout Bob Shaw in addition to retaining Coughlan.

Given the larger squad, given the absence of embargoes, given the bigger managerial squad I think it's fair to conclude that Brown has been given better financial backing. This probably isn't down to Ron preferring one over the other, but rather an acknowledgement of the finances at the club being boosted by Sturrock's transfer activity and cup runs and which Brown now benefits from.

 

[OldBlueLady]

That's conjecture.

What's conjecture? I can tell you categorically that O'Toole was on very high wages, which made him one of, if not the highest paid player at the club.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Last lot of Liaison Meeting Minutes has Steve Kavanagh quoted as saying :
".......that the Salary Cross Management Protocol (SCMP) findings for League 2 this year show SUFC as only 11[SUP]th[/SUP] in League 2, in terms of turnover."

Not sure "turnover" equates to "budget" particularly well.....

This is an unlikely stat IMO.

Attendance wise only Oxford, Bristol Rovers (relegated), Plymouth and Pompey averaged more than us in the division last year.

All the clubs relegated from L1 had smaller average attendances. Luton probably had higher average crowd but Cambridge wouldn't have.

This year it's the same clubs who are above us in the attendance table and we're 5th again.

We already have pretty much the most expensive ticket and season ticket prices in the division.

We must either be doing particularly poorly commercially, or be attracting an exceptionally large percentage of pensioners and kids.

 

[Thundersley Blue]

Just going back to the Assombolonga post. He was out for some weeks from the Gillingham game on New Years Day that year but worse his strike partner Gavin Tomlin was also out at the same time and the goals dried up.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This is an unlikely stat IMO.

Attendance wise only Oxford, Bristol Rovers (relegated), Plymouth and Pompey averaged more than us in the division last year.

All the clubs relegated from L1 had smaller average attendances. Luton probably had higher average crowd but Cambridge wouldn't have.

This year it's the same clubs who are above us in the attendance table and we're 5th again.

We already have pretty much the most expensive ticket and season ticket prices in the division.

We must either be doing particularly poorly commercially, or be attracting an exceptionally large percentage of pensioners and kids.

Actually, on second thoughts other clubs may have had cup runs:'(

 

[Pubey]

What's conjecture? I can tell you categorically that O'Toole was on very high wages, which made him one of, if not the highest paid player at the club.

That doesn't answer RobM's question.

No matter how 'in the know' people are about some players finances, it is conjecture to make an overall statement about the playing budget available for different managers.

Like Yorkie says, I think Brown has probably been afforded greater financial flexibility, but that's a guess based on what we've seen in terms of the squad.

 

[Beefy]

I wish people would stop bringing up the Bolger transfer fee as if it was some kind of amazing source of investment. I doubt it was all in one go and over the course of a two year contract when you add in additional PAYE it would equate to about £150-200 or so a week. I bet Barrett is earning more than £200 more than Bolger is for example.

On the point YB raised about staff budget, both PS and PB have stated that it is their choice as to how they spend their budget. PS sacrificed an assistant manager in order to bring in more players. That was his decision. Brown has decided to spend a chunk on a backroom team.

We won't know until we get the accounts but I don't think there's a significantly larger wage bill here now than there was in Sturrock's last season.

 

[Napster]

Id rather have Mike Marsh as manager. Doing a good job at Liverpool by all accounts

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Id rather have Mike Marsh as manager. Doing a good job at Liverpool by all accounts

I think Mike Marsh is too big a name. If he turned out to be any good he'd be quickly snapped up.

He's also the wrong end of the country for us.

 

[united we stand]

This time three years ago we'd beaten Wycombe away, were 6 points off the automatic promotion spot with a game in hand and a superior goal difference. We'd lost our two previous league matches (after Timlin broke his leg and Phillips and Barker knackered themselves) but prior to that had just 4 defeats in 20+ matches (at least two of which defeats were without Assombalonga).

This year we're 5 points off the automatic promotion but without that game in hand and with an inferior goal difference. But we do have a fit Michael Timlin (albeit the manager keeps on subbing him) and our first choice central defenders (whoever they may be) are all fit. We've lost the two previous league matches but prior to that had just 4 defeats in 20 matches.

Brown therefore has to be 5 matches away from the sack as his record is at best the same as Sturrock's this time the year Sturrock was sacked 5 matches later. Add in that Sturrock's record the previous year was superior to Brown's record last year, we scored more goals under Sturrock, that Sturrock was dealing with probably the worst injury crisis in living memory (we had Spillane at centre-back FFS and a midfield full of loanees who didn't know each others names) and that Sturrock guided us to that first Wembley final.

That is a very interesting post. Interesting and depressing as we dont seem to be moving forward ( you missed out that we have also apparently spent proper money on the training ground where as under sturrock the Trust supplied him with a laptop and software!). On a positive note there is still time for things to change. If we got to Wembley and won 3-0 we would all come back to these posts and laugh (going to lie down now).

 

[southendkid]

If we sack a manager that has us in 5th and replace him with a guy who has no managerial experience we'll be the laughing stock of League 2, imagine if another club did this we'd be calling the board idiots.

 

[Jam_Man]

This is an unlikely stat IMO.

Attendance wise only Oxford, Bristol Rovers (relegated), Plymouth and Pompey averaged more than us in the division last year.

All the clubs relegated from L1 had smaller average attendances. Luton probably had higher average crowd but Cambridge wouldn't have.

This year it's the same clubs who are above us in the attendance table and we're 5th again.

We already have pretty much the most expensive ticket and season ticket prices in the division.

We must either be doing particularly poorly commercially, or be attracting an exceptionally large percentage of pensioners and kids.

We dont though.

I posted the figures the other day, we are no where near the most expensive and plenty of other clubs charge £400 and more.

 

[onceknownasrab]

We dont though.

I posted the figures the other day, we are no where near the most expensive and plenty of other clubs charge £400 and more.

Thats an interesting piece of info and all credit to the club for keeping the price lower and still investing substantially in the squad.