Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

I wholeheartedly agree with you ***. I dislike May to a degree. I do not see her as someone that can lead this country post Brexit. I do however want to see a Tory government do just that, but not her. I don't think she is strong enough in both character and personality. I also think she underestimates not only the mood of the country but also those she feels are closest to her. She has been given the mandate to see this Brexit through and I have nothing but hope and a certain amount of belief that she, together with her cabinet, can get it done with the least amount of hardship for the people and businesses of the UK.

With the colossal growth in social media in the last decade or more, your average political voter is far, far more clued up and aware than they ever were back in the late 80's and early 90's. They can see past the lies, the spin, the half truths, the egos and the hubris and politicians and politics, in general, have been blind to this fact which goes some way to explaining the inherent mistrust the vast majority of the public have for those we elect to power.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'll be more specific ***. His brand of far left socialist, old school politics are dead. The more centralized Labour we've seen since the mid to late 70's is alive and kicking, even though it's somewhat in the political shadows of late and my reasons for thinking this are for another thread, not here.

As for the name and use of the (Great) Repeal Bill, TUIB was being his usual pedant and like a fool, I took the bait and got caught. Won't happen again.

You really need to explain why Jeremy Corybn did so well in the last general election and is well placed to do even better next time around with a united PLP behind him , for your "analysis" to have any validity at all.

It would indeed be one of the ironies of recent political history if the Tories **** up over Brexit and Labour win back power at the next general election in consequence.

 

[Gremlin]

that's not in dispute, the power grab is that it puts the power into the hands of the cabinet and side steps Parliament. The notion of 'taking back control' is being abused as it hands it over to a handful of people who only a few weeks ago asked the public to increase their mandate, and the public reduced their mandate. Grabbing power from the EU is not the issue, grabbing power from Parliament is the issue.

MPs that agree with you will have an opportunity to vote accordingly this evening in, er..... Parliament.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

MPs that agree with you will have an opportunity to vote accordingly this evening in, er..... Parliament.

And on various other occasons in the next18 months or so.Let's face it everything in UK politics in the next 2 years at least is going to be seen through the prism of Brexit.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

MPs that agree with you will have an opportunity to vote accordingly this evening in, er..... Parliament.

and the Tory and DUP MP's will be under a lot of pressure to sign over their rights of scrutiny to the select few in the inner circle.

 

[callan]

and the Tory and DUP MP's will be under a lot of pressure to sign over their rights of scrutiny to the select few in the inner circle.

Do you think any Labour MP's will defy the Whip?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Do you think any Labour MP's will defy the Whip?

Kate Hooey maybe, probably just her. The Tories are already using her on Twitter as some kind of 'one Labour MP can't be wrong' - which is a strange angle but....

 

[callan]

Kate Hooey maybe, probably just her. The Tories are already using her on Twitter as some kind of 'one Labour MP can't be wrong' - which is a strange angle but....

Read earlier that there would possibly be 3...Frank Field + Caroline flint in addition to Hoey...not the most trustworthy of sources though.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Read earlier that there would possibly be 3...Frank Field + Caroline flint in addition to Hoey...not the most trustworthy of sources though.

I've read the same now. Frank Field is one of the 9 Labour MPs who voted Leave and is almost a cross-party MP in the way he operates so not a massive surprise there.

Caroline Flint is MP for a strong Leave area but apparently her stance is to not block the bill now but to amend it later - I'd say we are running out of time for that and the amendments should come now. She may just be making a noise to appease her constituents and will vote with the party - in the same way Anna Soubry is possibly doing for the Tories. I guess we will find out tomorrow....

 

[callan]

I've read the same now. Frank Field is one of the 9 Labour MPs who voted Leave and is almost a cross-party MP in the way he operates so not a massive surprise there.

Caroline Flint is MP for a strong Leave area but apparently her stance is to not block the bill now but to amend it later - I'd say we are running out of time for that and the amendments should come now. She may just be making a noise to appease her constituents and will vote with the party - in the same way Anna Soubry is possibly doing for the Tories. I guess we will find out tomorrow....

Looks like all the Tories followed the Whip...with 7 Labour Mp's voting in favour of the government including Dennis skinner.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Looks like all the Tories followed the Whip...with 7 Labour Mp's voting in favour of the government including Dennis skinner.

Can't see Dennis or indeed any of the six others-Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, Kelvin Hopkins, John Mann and Graham Stringer- featuring in a Labour Shadow cabinet soon, if ever.

No Conservatives voted against on this reading, which indicates to me, that some are saving their powder for the third and final reading.

 

[Bielzibubz]

That's the first hurdle over and done with and I'm glad it went the way it did. There are plenty of battles to come and I dare say there will be a number of compromises on both sides because the ONLY way to see this through with the minimum amount of negative impact on the UK economy is to push forward and make sure the Repeal Bill is in place and working on the morning of our exit.

The time for debate, change, amendment, and political point scoring is after. To cause a delay in the Brexit process will have one effect and one effect only. Instability, uncertainty, and confusion. Something ALL parties, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem, were agreed upon months ago would be extremely harmful to the UK and its markets. To vote against the bill and cause a delay in its implementation would also be seen by many as a party political power ploy whether it actually is or not.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That's the first hurdle over and done with and I'm glad it went the way it did. There are plenty of battles to come and I dare say there will be a number of compromises on both sides because the ONLY way to see this through with the minimum amount of negative impact on the UK economy is to push forward and make sure the Repeal Bill is in place and working on the morning of our exit.

The time for debate, change, amendment, and political point scoring is after. To cause a delay in the Brexit process will have one effect and one effect only. Instability, uncertainty, and confusion. Something ALL parties, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem, were agreed upon months ago would be extremely harmful to the UK and its markets. To vote against the bill and cause a delay in its implementation would also be seen by many as a party political power ploy whether it actually is or not.

No.The time for "debate,amendment and political pointscoring" is before the bill becomes law ie now, in the committee stage and before the third and final reading of the bill.

Incidentally,some of the "minimum amount of negative impact on the UK economy" post the referendum vote, of which you speak, could be described at the current 2.9 rate of inflation,the effective 15% devaluation of sterling,the slowing down of the rate of increase of growth in the economy,a looming public sector row over pay etc.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Looks like all the Tories followed the Whip...with 7 Labour Mp's voting in favour of the government including Dennis skinner.

Skinner is obviously an Outter but a lot of people feel let down that he went along with this despite the Machiavellian aspects of the bill. Soubry turned out to be all talk as expected.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Skinner is obviously an Outter but a lot of people feel let down that he went along with this despite the Machiavellian aspects of the bill. Soubry turned out to be all talk as expected.

Interesting that Caroline Flint chose to abstain.Obviously she hopes to get a job under JC sooner or later.Would expect to see AS vote against on the third reading.

Dennis has always been a law unto himself.(Can't think of anyone whose political autobiography I found more disappointing). I'd imagine he would agree with Frank Field though, who said he voted to implement the wishes of his constituents in the referendum rather than against Labour's 3 line whip.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Was listening to Damian Green on the radio this morning who mentioned that Skinner has ocassionally voted with the tories. Very rare but not unknown.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Was listening to Damian Green on the radio this morning who mentioned that Skinner has ocassionally voted with the tories. Very rare but not unknown.

I think the word maverick sums him up

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Interesting that Caroline Flint chose to abstain.Obviously she hopes to get a job under JC sooner or later.Would expect to see AS vote against on the third reading.

Dennis has always been a law unto himself.(Can't think of anyone whose political autobiography I found more disappointing). I'd imagine he would agree with Frank Field though, who said he voted to implement the wishes of his constituents in the referendum rather than against Labour's 3 line whip.

I would hope Skinner was less black and white on that - it's weak IMO to hand over additional powers to a government who interprete 'will of the people' as Brexit the Tory way with as little input from Parliament as possible, but manifesto pledges are disposable.

IMO The Tories are the ones jepodising Brexit by trying to sneak extra powers within the legislation, and sending in people to negotiate who are not up to the job.

 

[Benfleet A1]

So Skinner defying a 3 line whip is maverick but when Corbyn done it, regularly, then that's principled. That clears that up.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So Skinner defying a 3 line whip is maverick but when Corbyn done it, regularly, then that's principled. That clears that up.

no, Corbyn has always been a maverick too but we were only discussing Skinner at that point