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Brexit negotiations thread

callan

*Come On The Football*
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They'll accept something they believe to be reasonable and workable. We have yet to work out what that is. They probably haven't either.

There was some bloke on the tv last night lamenting how difficult and intransigent the EU were being. Seemed to think they should just give us what we want. It doesn't work like that. We've both been in the rooms, we know how it works and how it doesn't. The art of negotiation is to find common ground. Are they punishing us for leaving? Doubt it, the French, Dutch, Germans and especially the Irish need something.

You've got on one hand the largest multi nation beaurocracy on the planet dealing with a government that not only doesn't know what it wants, but also doesn't understand how it works.

I hope I am wrong, I really do, but I honestly can't see any movement to the situation.
I am looking at this in context from both sides rather than one.....failure to reach an agreement has consequences....imagine the damage done to the EU schedules within the WTO particularly with regards quota's if no deal is achieved.

My take on this, is that at present neither side of the the negotiations are particularly performing in the interests of it citizens.

I would also add the Belgians and the Danes to the above list of EU countries that need something.
 
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In regards my first question, if these negotiations fail and you are for example a German car worker who relies on the UK to buy the cars his company makes, would you be happy with the way EU is conducting negotiations?

The UK is the EU's biggest customer post Brexit or at least will become so....this does not apply to either Switzerland or Norway.
Yes, you talk good sense Callan...........good economic sense. I am but an amateur (concerned) in this unfolding panorama and I defer to both the expertise of you and Lord Football on the processes of negotiation. Yet you both appear to disagree rather strongly.................Oh well, these days who believes experts anyway? :winking: It does however seem to me, in my simple way, that the UK side and yourself, concentrate on the economic aspects of Brexit and tend to misunderstand? undervalue? ignore? the political dimension that is involved. The undoubted economic pain from Brexit will hurt both sides but that, in time, is recoverable............could giving in to the UK's demands create political problems which may be less easy to recover from?

Y
 

Lord Football

Master Of All He Surveys
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I am looking at this in context from both sides rather than one.....failure to reach an agreement has consequences....imagine the damage done to the EU schedules within the WTO particularly with regards quota's if no deal is achieved.

My take on this, is that at present neither side of the the negotiations are particularly performing in the interests of it citizens.

I would also add the Belgians and the Danes to the above list of EU countries that need something.
Yes, failure to reach an agreement does have consequences. I thought my comments re DE, NL etc underlined that. Whilst there wont necessarily be difficulties with WTO schedules (ours are, however, a different matter). As we will find when we examine our continued involvement in CTC, Chicago, Istanbul, AW and a myriad of other trade arrangements that make moving goods so much easier internationally.

But the over-riding considerations for the EU is that they do not want to be seen to give a leaving party an easy out option to leave, they will want whatever money they perceive to be owing and they'll offer us the minimum they can get away without losing their own standing. In other words a completely different set of objectives from the UK's.
 
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The Chancellor stating how bad a no deal option is for the NHS puts him at odds with the Foreign Secretary who has been telling us we will be cash heavy.
His threats that planes will be grounded too seems odd negotiationing strategy - I bet David Davis will appreciate that interjection. Are various Tories trying to distance themselves from the outcome?
 

Yorkshire Blue

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Yogi, nothing I have ever written on here has probably served to re-assure you, and there is little purpose in attempting to re run the arguments that were made prior to the referendum.

If you want my current take on where we are, it would be that we are moving in the right direction some of the time but not all...I believe we have until December to 'achieve', what the EU deems to be sufficient progress to move onto other areas....and certainly both sides will need to recognize that there will be the need for a series of 'trade offs', to reach that position....with both sides in danger of being Hamstrung for very different reasons.
When can we expect the German car manufacturers to come running to our rescue?

Also what type of trade offs will we have to concede? I thought we were supposed to have our cake and eat it?

They'll accept something they believe to be reasonable and workable. We have yet to work out what that is. They probably haven't either.

There was some bloke on the tv last night lamenting how difficult and intransigent the EU were being. Seemed to think they should just give us what we want. It doesn't work like that. We've both been in the rooms, we know how it works and how it doesn't. The art of negotiation is to find common ground. Are they punishing us for leaving? Doubt it, the French, Dutch, Germans and especially the Irish need something.

You've got on one hand the largest multi nation beaurocracy on the planet dealing with a government that not only doesn't know what it wants, but also doesn't understand how it works.

I hope I am wrong, I really do, but I honestly can't see any movement to the situation.
The EU set out their position months ago. To the extent we're not being intransigent it's because we haven't even agreed a position to try and stick to.

It's disappointing that the issues that were raised in the referendum by Remainers have still not been addressed by the Leavers and in many cases barely recognised as issues. None of this should be taking us by surprise.

May's decision to serve the Article 50 notice is the most reckless decision in British political history.

Hardly.

We've seen the plan for Fossets.
 

Yorkshire Blue

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Yogi, nothing I have ever written on here has probably served to re-assure you, and there is little purpose in attempting to re run the arguments that were made prior to the referendum.

If you want my current take on where we are, it would be that we are moving in the right direction some of the time but not all...I believe we have until December to 'achieve', what the EU deems to be sufficient progress to move onto other areas....and certainly both sides will need to recognize that there will be the need for a series of 'trade offs', to reach that position....with both sides in danger of being Hamstrung for very different reasons.
When can we expect the German car manufacturers to come running to our rescue?

Also what type of trade offs will we have to concede? I thought we were supposed to have our cake and eat it?

They'll accept something they believe to be reasonable and workable. We have yet to work out what that is. They probably haven't either.

There was some bloke on the tv last night lamenting how difficult and intransigent the EU were being. Seemed to think they should just give us what we want. It doesn't work like that. We've both been in the rooms, we know how it works and how it doesn't. The art of negotiation is to find common ground. Are they punishing us for leaving? Doubt it, the French, Dutch, Germans and especially the Irish need something.

You've got on one hand the largest multi nation beaurocracy on the planet dealing with a government that not only doesn't know what it wants, but also doesn't understand how it works.

I hope I am wrong, I really do, but I honestly can't see any movement to the situation.
The EU set out their position months ago. To the extent we're not being intransigent it's because we haven't even agreed a position to try and stick to.

It's disappointing that the issues that were raised in the referendum by Remainers have still not been addressed by the Leavers and in many cases barely recognised as issues. None of this should be taking us by surprise.

May's decision to serve the Article 50 notice is the most reckless decision in British political history.

Hardly.

We've seen the plan for Fossets.
 

Pubey

Guest
Anyone starting to think that Brexit won't actually happen now?

Are the tories good enough to put the country before their party?
 

MK Shrimper

Life President
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Anyone starting to think that Brexit won't actually happen now?

Are the tories good enough to put the country before their party?
I'd love to say that yes, the article 50 will be revoked but sadly I think we're slowly chugging down the hill until we fall off it. The main players in the Tory party are millionaires - it will make f all difference to them if we fall into a massive recession or interest rates rocket.
 
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I'd love to say that yes, the article 50 will be revoked but sadly I think we're slowly chugging down the hill until we fall off it. The main players in the Tory party are millionaires - it will make f all difference to them if we fall into a massive recession or interest rates rocket.
Should I beg to differ? I present no proof but I have a sneaking suspicion that a hard Brexit could make many of these players a darn sight f richer! :smile:
 
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