Chris Kamaras Latest view

[Hong Kong Blue]

Oh come on be realistic! Who is going to poach Tilly?

Please name three examples of lower league managers, who aren't a name manager nor have any connection with that club, but still have been poached by higher division clubs without ever having won promotion?

In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]Oh come on be realistic! Who is going to poach Tilly?

Please name three examples of lower league managers, who aren't a name manager nor have any connection with that club, but still have been poached by higher division clubs without ever having won promotion?

In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

The Scottish guy who went to Southampton from Plymouth.

However you have a point, hopefully that will continue and a succesful Tilly will not have the temptation put in front of him.

 

[The Man Who Likes Prams]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 08 2005,15:01)]

Quote[/b] (SoC @ Feb. 08 2005,13:20)]Well, to put the cat amongst the pidgeons, I hear Tilly's been offered a 2 or 3 year contract from the end of this season but, for whatever reasons, hasn't accepted yet.....

Presumably because, if he takes us up and/or to the LDV Final plus playoffs, he can ask for a sh*t-load more money than he's currently on...?

Please, let's have no idle speculation about this.

Closely connected as I am to the shop which generates more idle gossip and speculation than any other, I must object in the strongest possible terms to any attempt to make this a responsible, nay intellectual, repository of Shrimper-related facts and genuine information.

Where, may I ask, is the fun in that? Wiggy is right! Ban Boring Posts! Fiction, Division, and Negativity Rule!

 

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 08 2005,15:32)]The Scottish guy who went to Southampton from Plymouth.

However you have a point, hopefully that will continue and a succesful Tilly will not have the temptation put in front of him.

Sturrock managed St Johnston and Dundee United for some years in Scotland so had a pretty long track record.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]Oh come on be realistic! Who is going to poach Tilly?

Please name three examples of lower league managers, who aren't a name manager nor have any connection with that club, but still have been poached by higher division clubs without ever having won promotion?

In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

Wasn't it their success at the lower division clubs that made them name managers i.e. Martin O'Neill, John Gregory etc

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 08 2005,15:32)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]Oh come on be realistic! Who is going to poach Tilly?

Please name three examples of lower league managers, who aren't a name manager nor have any connection with that club, but still have been poached by higher division clubs without ever having won promotion?

In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

The Scottish guy who went to Southampton from Plymouth.

However you have a point, hopefully that will continue and a succesful Tilly will not have the temptation put in front of him.

Sturrock is an interesting example. He won one championship and was on the verge of a second when poached.

Firstly he also had a pretty respectable record in Scotland, where he had top flight managerial experience -albeit Scottish (I don't think he'd have got the So'ton job without that).

Secondly I think he had a decent playing record.

Thirdly how long did he last? I think his lack of impact will dissuade many top flight clubs from going for a lower division manager.

IMHO it is pretty much impossible to move directly up the football pyramid. Clubs are unwilling to gamble on lower division managers (and to an extent, players) who have no experience at that level. Look at our last two major sales, both Stan Collymore and Chris Powell had to move sideways to another div 2 club, who then got promoted in order to reach the level their talents deserved. Once they had played Premier$hite football it was easy enough to move (sideways)to another premier$hite club, but to get that initial move up proved impossible despite the fact that both were clearly good enough.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Feb. 08 2005,15:55)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]Oh come on be realistic! Who is going to poach Tilly?

Please name three examples of lower league managers, who aren't a name manager nor have any connection with that club, but still have been poached by higher division clubs without ever having won promotion?

In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

Wasn't it their success at the lower division clubs that made them name managers i.e. Martin O'Neill, John Gregory etc

John Gregory was a former coach of Villa, so he had the Villa connection.

Martin O'Neill guided Wycombe from the conference to (the old) div 3 - ie 2 promotions. As a European Cup winner at Forest he could be considered something of a "name" from his playing days.

 

[Song of the South Upper]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:09)]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 08 2005,15:32)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]Oh come on be realistic! Who is going to poach Tilly?

Please name three examples of lower league managers, who aren't a name manager nor have any connection with that club, but still have been poached by higher division clubs without ever having won promotion?

In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

The Scottish guy who went to Southampton from Plymouth.

However you have a point, hopefully that will continue and a succesful Tilly will not have the temptation put in front of him.

Sturrock is an interesting example. He won one championship and was on the verge of a second when poached.

Firstly he also had a pretty respectable record in Scotland, where he had top flight managerial experience -albeit Scottish (I don't think he'd have got the So'ton job without that).

Secondly I think he had a decent playing record.

Thirdly how long did he last? I think his lack of impact will dissuade many top flight clubs from going for a lower division manager.

IMHO it is pretty much impossible to move directly up the football pyramid. Clubs are unwilling to gamble on lower division managers (and to an extent, players) who have no experience at that level. Look at our last two major sales, both Stan Collymore and Chris Powell had to move sideways to another div 2 club, who then got promoted in order to reach the level their talents deserved. Once they had played Premier$hite football it was easy enough to move (sideways)to another premier$hite club, but to get that initial move up proved impossible despite the fact that both were clearly good enough.

General opinion is that Sturrock was basically shat on by Rupert Lowe, though.

From what I've heard, Sturrock bought in a lot of things that riled Southampton's 'Star' players, who then went moaning to Lowe. He decided that his players were a better asset than his manager, so off Sturrock went. Lowe was also allegedly hacked off at the way he couldn't influence the manager, as he could do with the caretakers Saints had before and after Sturrock.

All alleged, and not confirmd by either side, of course, but this is the general consensus from Saints fans...

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

Gary Johnson turned Coventry down
Mike Newell, Chris Turner

 

[Song of the South Upper]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Feb. 08 2005,15:50)]Chris Turner

Aye, and look where it got him...

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Feb. 08 2005,16:50)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

Gary Johnson turned Coventry down
Mike Newell, Chris Turner

Gary Johnson - true, but he has also successfully managed Latvia and he looks like gaining a second promotion

Mike Newell - ex Luton player, and arguably a "name" having played top flight football for most of his career and won a championship medal at Blackburn. Also not sure if he was poached, I seem to remember he was "voted" for by the fans in a rigged election. Did Hartlepool sack him?

Turner - ex Wednesday player. If memory serves me correctly he's never won promotion as he quit with Hartlepool romping away with the division.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Frankly, if Howard Wilkinson gets another job for having a rubbish managerial record then I think there must be something wrong with the system.

Not to mention Graham Souness.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Feb. 08 2005,15:29)]Oh come on be realistic! Who is going to poach Tilly?

Please name three examples of lower league managers, who aren't a name manager nor have any connection with that club, but still have been poached by higher division clubs without ever having won promotion?

In fact I'd be interested to hear examples who have been poached by a higher division club after winning a single promotion.

Erm... am I missing something here?

How about Spud?!

Quite seriously - a period of relative lack of success with Southend, followed by a period of even less success with Dover, followed by taking Gillingham up via the play-offs (arguably, not that much of a success, since Tony Pulis had been about 30 seconds from achieving that same feat the previous season).

Once promoted, Spud got poached pretty damn quickly by Leicester City.

So, there's an example of someone who got poached pretty quickly, after having led a side to one promotion.

(OK, so he did some stuff with the England U21s... but so what?!)

 

[neil]

Steve Parkin left Rochdale when they were top of the league to go to Barnsley in the first division. He was promptly dismissed just over a year later!

Very few clubs are either willing to take managers at this level or they cannot gt them. An interesting example would be Dave Penney, who is very similar to Tilson in many ways, who remains at Doncaster despite successive promotions, which was also the case with Ronnie Moore and Micky Adams

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 09 2005,10:56)](OK, so he did some stuff with the England U21s... but so what?!)

2 successive defeats now

 

[MrB]

Quote[/b] (neil @ Feb. 09 2005,11:08)]Ronnie Moore

He drives the same car as me, right down to the colour. Saw him get into it on SSN the day he resigned.

Anyone else drive the same model and colour car as a white haired, ex-Championship manager?