Defending corners

[BluesMike61]

Whilst I believe that PS has done a great job,in very difficult circimstances and generally agree with his team selection and tactics,can someone please explain to me why we always have 11 in the penalty box when defending corners?

If we do clear our lines,the ball invariably comes straight back into the area.

In our recent game with them,the Gills usually had 2 players near the halfway line when they defended corners,which meant we had to withdraw 3 players to cover.So the Gills didn't lose out numerically when defending plus had the chance of a breakaway when clearing their lines.

I would definitely withdraw at least one player to near the halfway line (Ryan Hall would be my first choice) especially when we are chasing the game.Keeping all 11 back seems to me to be very negative,particularly when playing at home against poor opposition.Your thoughts please.

 

[tottenham541]

Whilst I believe that PS has done a great job,in very difficult circimstances and generally agree with his team selection and tactics,can someone please explain to me why we always have 11 in the penalty box when defending corners?

If we do clear our lines,the ball invariably comes straight back into the area.

In our recent game with them,the Gills usually had 2 players near the halfway line when they defended corners,which meant we had to withdraw 3 players to cover.So the Gills didn't lose out numerically when defending plus had the chance of a breakaway when clearing their lines.

I would definitely withdraw at least one player to near the halfway line (Ryan Hall would be my first choice) especially when we are chasing the game.Keeping all 11 back seems to me to be very negative,particularly when playing at home against poor opposition.Your thoughts please.

yeh agree with you on that one, me and me mates keep going on about this as it would be ideal to leave hall on the half way line to pick up the clearence, and with his pace as well could cause all sorts of problems running at two defenders.

 

[Beefy]

How many goals have we conceded from corners this year?

 

[tottenham541]

How many goals have we conceded from corners this year?

when bilel comes back he will sort it, hall being the smallest as well, leave him up their eh.

 

[BluesMike61]

How many goals have we conceded from corners this year?

Too many, I agree. But if we withdrew a player to the halfway line, the opposition would have one less attacking!

 

[Beefy]

Too many, I agree. But if we withdrew a player to the halfway line, the opposition would have one less attacking!

Not really, opposition teams generally leave two back anyway. We'd probably need two players forward in order to get them to drop another player back.

My point really was that we don't concede that many from corners anymore. We're never going to stop conceding from them totally but on the whole I'd suggest that PS knows what he's doing when it comes to attacking and defending set pieces. I'd guess that his philosophy is that leaving someone up front may earn you one or two goals a season on the counter-attack but could come at the cost of two or three goals a season which the extra man back could have helped prevent.

 

[united we stand]

Too many, I agree. But if we withdrew a player to the halfway line, the opposition would have one less attacking!

IMy gut instinct is that I would expect a stat to show it is actually far far less than last year. both as a whole number and a percentage

 

[Firestorm]

PS seems to favour the tactic of leaving a CB free so they can attack the ball without worrying about having a man to mark.

That leaves just one outfield player not marking up when the opposition leave two back (which they invariably will unless they are really chasing the game) this one player with generally be hovering around the edge of the box to try and pick up anything not fully cleared or be one of two who are trying to get the lump the opponents have got trampling all over the keeper out of the way.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Wasn't it something similar to circa 40% of goals scored in the top four tiers of English football being from set-pieces? I'd be interested to see a) how that lines up with the number of goals we concede and, b) how that lines up with the number of goals we score.

 

[Beefy]

I saw a stat a year ot two ago citing around 30% of goals coming from set pieces. 40% seems a shade too high. I know Tilly's sides used to be slated on here for conceding too many from set pieces but it's a problem that a lot of teams face. We seem relatively solid from those positions.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I saw a stat a year ot two ago citing around 30% of goals coming from set pieces. 40% seems a shade too high. I know Tilly's sides used to be slated on here for conceding too many from set pieces but it's a problem that a lot of teams face. We seem relatively solid from those positions.

It may be different when including the C'ship, L1 and L2, but according to Opta 42% of goals in the EPL for the 09/10 season were scored from set pieces.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I saw a stat a year ot two ago citing around 30% of goals coming from set pieces. 40% seems a shade too high. I know Tilly's sides used to be slated on here for conceding too many from set pieces but it's a problem that a lot of teams face. We seem relatively solid from those positions.

I think the main set-piece issue we had under Tilly was that we conceded too many free-kicks in dangerous positions. When your two centre-halves are both in the top dozen for most free-kicks conceded in the division, you are going to concede a lot of goals from set pieces. This problem was exacerbated when only the right-back and maybe a forward was above 6 foot.

This season we've seen a lot less hugging and a lot better positional play (Bilel aside) reducing the need to dive in.

 

[Beefy]

I think the main set-piece issue we had under Tilly was that we conceded too many free-kicks in dangerous positions. When your two centre-halves are both in the top dozen for most free-kicks conceded in the division, you are going to concede a lot of goals from set pieces. This problem was exacerbated when only the right-back and maybe a forward was above 6 foot.

This season we've seen a lot less hugging and a lot better positional play (Bilel aside) reducing the need to dive in.

Whilst that is true, we did let in a lot of goals from corners. A lot more than we do now.

 

[Blue_Wes]

I actually agree with the original poster that not putting Hall in the box will not be detrimental to our defending set pieces. I can't really recall him winning a header there in his time here, and surely an outlet to (potentially) relieve the pressure is better a clearance going straight to the opposition, to launch another attack.

I wonder what the number of goals scored from the second ball into the box (from a cleared set piece) is? Tht stat I think would give a clearer answer to Bluesmike61's question original question/thoughts.

Also, I can't recall, but do we put players on the posts when defending set pieces? I always seem to remember Johnny Herd taking this position but can't recall anyone else doing it when he's not on the pitch.

 

[Beefy]

There was an interesting rant from 'The Anonymous Footballer' in, I think, the Guardian a while back moaning about the media obsession with sticking men on the posts. It made the point that teams shouldn't need to cover the goalline and that if a ball needs to be hacked off the line it's a sign that at least one of the defenders hasn't done his job properly.

 

[Blue_Wes]

There was an interesting rant from 'The Anonymous Footballer' in, I think, the Guardian a while back moaning about the media obsession with sticking men on the posts. It made the point that teams shouldn't need to cover the goalline and that if a ball needs to be hacked off the line it's a sign that at least one of the defenders hasn't done his job properly.

This is true, but set's a rather unrealistic expectation that defenders should win every header.

I was just trying to establish what use having Hall in a defensive role in our box is? He doesn't win headers and I was wondering if he took on this fabled position. If you do find the story again, I wouldn't mind reading it.

Another aside on this, one of the brothers Grimm (Hanson or Lawrenson) did a piece on the man on the post (MotP) on MotD. It was a collage of clips showing the number of times a header/shot was aimed at the MotP, and simply sailed (or dribbled in most cases) past the player as he stood there almost completey unaware of what was going on. There were some howlers in there, maybe the MotP truly is a pointless concpet.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This is true, but set's a rather unrealistic expectation that defenders should win every header.

I was just trying to establish what use having Hall in a defensive role in our box is? He doesn't win headers and I was wondering if he took on this fabled position. If you do find the story again, I wouldn't mind reading it.

Another aside on this, one of the brothers Grimm (Hanson or Lawrenson) did a piece on the man on the post (MotP) on MotD. It was a collage of clips showing the number of times a header/shot was aimed at the MotP, and simply sailed (or dribbled in most cases) past the player as he stood there almost completey unaware of what was going on. There were some howlers in there, maybe the MotP truly is a pointless concpet.

It's not just about winning the headers: it's also about putting the opponents off so they can't get a free header on goal. You don't have to win the header in order to do this, it's as much about blocking off space.

 

[Blue_Wes]

It's not just about winning the headers: it's also about putting the opponents off so they can't get a free header on goal. You don't have to win the header in order to do this, it's as much about blocking off space.

It's not just about winning headers you're right, but clearing the ball is far more effective when defending a set piece than trying to put off the opponent, and this is what our players should be aiming to do. This tactic of putting the opponent off should only be deployed if you are unable to win the header.

If the oppostion don't have all their players in the box, then surely our remaining nine outfield players should be able (in theory - ability & awareness plays a big part here) to block off off the space required by the fewer number of opposition players to score and clear our lines. It seems logical to me (which by no means makes it right) to have one player outside of the box to relieve the pressure and try to stop the cleared ball going straight to the opposition, and subsequently back into our penalty area.

 

[Beefy]

This is true, but set's a rather unrealistic expectation that defenders should win every header.

I was just trying to establish what use having Hall in a defensive role in our box is? He doesn't win headers and I was wondering if he took on this fabled position. If you do find the story again, I wouldn't mind reading it.

Another aside on this, one of the brothers Grimm (Hanson or Lawrenson) did a piece on the man on the post (MotP) on MotD. It was a collage of clips showing the number of times a header/shot was aimed at the MotP, and simply sailed (or dribbled in most cases) past the player as he stood there almost completey unaware of what was going on. There were some howlers in there, maybe the MotP truly is a pointless concpet.

Found it.

Pundits like Andy Gray? Why the players couldn't care less.

"What particularly riles me is when you hear a pundit or co-commentator say something like, "I can't understand, Martin, why Drogba is not on the post here. That header would have fallen to him and if I'm Petr Cech I'm saying: 'Go on son, clear that off the line for me!'"

The fact is corners are routinely cleared by a man stationed on the six-yard line, exactly where Chelsea position Didier Drogba. If somebody scores inside that post it is for no other reason than a player having lost his man. That is the mistake. If there is a player on the post he will clear one, possibly two shots off the line a season. If that same player stands on the six-yard line he will probably clear 100 corners away over the course of the season.

The worst thing, though, is when this dross gets into popular culture and my friends start saying stupid things to me like, "We should have a man on the post, our manager doesn't know what he's doing", just because it sounds like the right thing to say. It's such an easy way of analysing that it infuriates me. It's lazy and it takes you, the viewer, for a fool. But, then again, Sky is an expert in creating a villain."

 

[OldBlueLady]

Agree with the original post, why Hall is being used to defend a corner in addition to every other player, I fail to understand. I think we've missed many opportunities to break from a defending corner clearance which we'd have had the chance to do if a player had been kept up.

I would point out that both Grant and Easton have been pretty useful in goal line clearances this season so positioning generally must be pretty good. I think Barker's done it too but can't remember if that's been from corners.