England 2017

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'm not sure we are poor, Bangladesh are a team that is just getting better and better I always thought this series would be a challenge. Especially in sub continent conditions. I thought 2-1 and it's 1-1 with one to play. India will be tough!

Had there been a third test I'd have agreed with you. It's a shame there isn't as this was an interesting series with alien conditions for England making it an even contest.

I'm probably in a minority in that I don't see India as that much better than Bangladesh but what will count against England is the schedule. It's brutal. It's something like 7 test matches in 9 weeks. If England get mentally behind the wheels will end up coming off. England already have a problem finishing series:

Final Test Match of Series
Bangladesh (A) L
Pakistan (H) L
Sri Lanka (H) D
South Africa (A) L
Pakistan (A) L
Australia (H) L
NZ (H) L
West Indies (A) L
India (H) W
Sri Lanka (H) L
Australia (A) L

 

[AndyT]

The only reason England were the first major team to get beaten by Bangladesh is the others won't play them.

^
This.

Australia have only played 4 Test Matches against them and none since 2006.

India are pretty much the same. Quite amazing that the two countries border each other and Bangladesh have not played a single Test Match in India!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

^
This.

Australia have only played 4 Test Matches against them and none since 2006.

India are pretty much the same. Quite amazing that the two countries border each other and Bangladesh have not played a single Test Match in India!

It's because it doesn't pay to play them.

It's also why England play India and Australia more often than South Africa.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Good start for England today, batted really well and good to see they brought in Hameed. Just wish they'd gone with him in Bangladesh

 

[ESG]

Another batting disaster this morning. As Harry would have said "we got spanked":stunned::sad::sad::hilarious:

 

[Blueronron]

Could not believe it
The whole set up needs to be looked at after today, would not blame Cook, but dropped catches ,some hard, but never the less the dollies ,should have been gobbled up and that was the main difference, I know its the same for both side and India missed a couple of easy ones. but really I think that would have turned the screw on the Indians and maybe been able to set a more attacking field for later batsmen

Big decision for Cookie over the Christmas period

 

[BrettieAngell]

I know the series was over but the collapse today was ****ing pathetic.

There are positives to take from the series, Hameed, Jennings, Rashid (although he was still a bit too expensive), but some players need to look at themselves, Root gave his wicket away a couple of times with reckless shots and he wasn't the only one.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Could not believe it
The whole set up needs to be looked at after today, would not blame Cook, but dropped catches ,some hard, but never the less the dollies ,should have been gobbled up and that was the main difference, I know its the same for both side and India missed a couple of easy ones. but really I think that would have turned the screw on the Indians and maybe been able to set a more attacking field for later batsmen

Big decision for Cookie over the Christmas period

It's not a decision for Cookie but a decision for Strauss. And it's a fairly easy decision (albeit it's never easy to tell people the decision).

 

[rigsby]

It's not a decision for Cookie but a decision for Strauss. And it's a fairly easy decision (albeit it's never easy to tell people the decision).

Cook sounded like he was going to make the decision easy for everyone. We need to look towards the Ashes in Auz at the end of next year. So Joe Root needs to be in place in January ready for a fresh start next Summer

 

[MK Shrimper]

Cook has resigned as captain, no doubt due to the Indian defeats.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Cook has resigned as captain, no doubt due to the Indian defeats.

I think the fact he's captained 59 tests now has a bit more to do with it. That's a long old slog.

More recent years might have tarnished his legacy somewhat, but Cook has still been a tremendous captain. Piers Morgan despises him, which is probably all you need to know.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I think the fact he's captained 59 tests now has a bit more to do with it. That's a long old slog.

More recent years might have tarnished his legacy somewhat, but Cook has still been a tremendous captain. Piers Morgan despises him, which is probably all you need to know.

How has he been a tremendous captain?

Tactically he was adequate at best and he was rarely even that.

His much vaunted leadership skills didn't amount to much when things were going wrong in Australia or in this last series in India. Or when England lost their first ever test to Bangladesh, or when the wheels came off at home to Sri Lanka (Headingley in 2014 was a real Nadir for English cricket). Add in a series in NZ where we failed to win a test; only drawing with "mediocre" West Indies; getting thumped v Pakistan in UAE and the overall picture is underwhelming to say the least.

And this is at a time when English cricket has never been better funded or organised; they've benefited from central contracts, a weak Australia, a Pakistan who can't play tests at home, a West Indies and a South Africa who can't keep their players etc etc.

His record since being appointed permanent captain was thoroughly uninspiring and getting worse. His last 25 tests, he presided over a whopping 12 defeats (and 4 draws). By way of contrast Eoin Morgan has won 15 of his last 25 ODIs, with a N/R and a tie and just 8 defeats.

Cook goes down as comfortably the worst to have captained England to 20+ tests since at least Gower.

The only good thing about his captaincy was that it ****ed off Piers Morgan, but as that's easy enough to do anyway I'm not sure why that really merits a mention.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

I think Cook has been an adequate captain, mainly because there were no real alternatives.

He's worked hard, been stuck with the transition from best team in the world to basically the West Indies (Exciting when it comes off but brain-dead and inconsistent).
He had to deal with the Pietersen fall out, never having a settled opening partner, no great (or, towards the end, good) spinner after Swann's decline.

He's scored runs at a better average as captain than non-captain (slightly).

We've won in India and South Africa in an era when no one wins away.
But we've underwhelmed massively sometimes too.

So overall, he's been decent and that's about it. But that's about it.

But i'll forgive anything for playing for Essex and ****ing off Piers Morgan, who is a ****ing **** and a very poor excuse for a 'human'

 

[AndyT]

Cook has resigned as captain, no doubt due to the Indian defeats.

That was sorted before the series began, IMHO.

His pre-series interview was pretty transparent.

FWIW, I think he's been a good captain, hamstrung by the negative approach in the field, which comes from pre-match team meetings, as much as anything.

To captain and open the batting, whilst juggling several different opening partners, must be the toughest mental challenge in world cricket.

England have stabilized under Cook, but now is the right time to go up through the gears under Joe Root.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

That was sorted before the series began, IMHO.

His pre-series interview was pretty transparent.

FWIW, I think he's been a good captain, hamstrung by the negative approach in the field, which comes from pre-match team meetings, as much as anything.

To captain and open the batting, whilst juggling several different opening partners, must be the toughest mental challenge in world cricket.

England have stabilized under Cook, but now is the right time to go up through the gears under Joe Root.

He was a very poor captain. What success England did achieve (and there were as many highs as lows) during his tenure was despite his captaincy not because of it.

He was a **** tactician. England's tactics were decided in the dressing room in advance of the session. What deviation from that plan would be only as a result of the players freelancing and doing their own thing (Broad, Swann and most of all Jimmy basically overruled him and set their own fields) or a message coming from the dressing room in a drinks break.

His negative approach flew in the face of how Bayliss and the young tyros like Stokes wanted to play. We saw this in one-day cricket before when his captaincy by numbers was forced out (and let's not forget how cringeworthy his interview was after he was quite rightly sacked from that) and then in test cricket when he managed to take a young, talented team backwards.

As for the number of opening partners, I'd have had more sympathy if he'd done more to make their life easier. First, the dressing room he was nominally in charge of was very cliquey and new players generally struggled - until injuries forced out a load of Cook's buddies like Swann and Prior. Secondly he did little to ease in his opening partners - what the great batsmen do is dominate and manipulate the strike and ensure they are taking on the best bowler to help out the junior partner at least until they've got their eye in. Obviously that's unfair to expect him to do that when he's not a great batsman but where he loses sympathy is that he was complicit in the sacking of such a batsman.

So if he offered next to nothing tactically; failed to keep together a dressing room, which suggests his man management isn't much; averaged in the 30s more often than not which suggests he wasn't particularly leading from the front - then what exactly did he offer other than an acceptable face for sponsors?

I mean I'm all for him winding up Shane Warne by being such a crap captain when Warne was overlooked for the captaincy (and that oh so clearly rankles with Warne), but that only works for Ashes series as otherwise Warne is busy playing poker, popping pills, getting his face botoxed, being a sex-text-pest, commissioning murals and generally only not getting riled that such a tactically inept captain was given the honour of leading his country in test cricket when he wasn't because he isn't watching.

Just look at all the captains Cook went up against who out captained him - captains like Misbah, McCullum, Mathews all had far less in terms of resources (both in terms of players and backroom support) and used their captaincy skills to elevate their teams. I can't think of a single captain that he out-captained - not even someone like Ramdin. At best there were no score draws on the captaincy front when it was equally insipid on both sides (or in Michael Clarke's case, unnecessarily funky for the sake of being different).

 

[rigsby]

I sure I've read that previous post before. That's it, someone has replaced the word Brown with Cook.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Sorry YB, I think you're chatting **** mate.
I agree in that I don't think Cook was a very good captain, but I don't think he ever wanted it. He only did it coz no one else was around to.
He'd the best England batsman I've ever seen, at least as good as anyone else that's ever pulled on the Three Lions I'd imagine.

Pietersen a great batsman? toilet, a massive ego but just did whatever he liked and sometimes it came off, in which case it was brilliant to watch, but he never played for the team.

But Cook reintegrated him at a point when I'd of never taken him back i.e. after the Strauss stuff.

Overall, Cook certainly wasn't the best but by a long way not the worst.

He did his duty to his country to the best of his ability, which is limited (in captaincy)

 

[Perth Bambi]

Agree with YB. He did his job as captain but not very well. He was hardly likely to refuse to set fields after all was he. I do feel he is a decent batsman although maybe not quite in the form the last year or two consistantly that he has been previously. I have often found myself frustrated with him and how he has captained, he is super super defensive, and doesn't seem to have much get up and go (a la michael vaughan) I appreciate everyone is different but I would hope that my captain would either be a great motivator or a great tactician and I don't feel he is either. He is good in press conferences and behaves himself but that is the most I can say.
Pieterson whilst a bit of an idiot (probably made to look even worse by that embaressment Piers Morgan) was certainly a great batsman and when playing would certainly have walked into any team in the world. Both very good batsman with very different personalities. I happen to agree with what KP (apparently) mentioned that doing fitness sessions halfway through an ashes series that we were getting hammered in was a total waste of time. Time will tell how Root goes and I like Stokes as a vice captain.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Speaking of Cook's captaincy, England's recent shambles of a test tour of India rather put into context by the Convicts http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2016-17/engine/match/1062573.html

England are looking good in the limited overs stuff in WI though. Second warm-up game and chasing 234 from 50 overs we are 82/1 off 16.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Champions trophy starts tomorrow, I really fancy us for it. Was going to put a bet on but the odds are awful