England v Hungary C4 from 1900

[Supa Shrimpa]

The players aren't the only ones not bothered by this pointless exercise. Why do the people running this think it's a good idea when there is another long season just round the corner with a World Cup right in the middle of it?

I agree. I'm pretty sure the clubs will be telling their superstars to take it easy in this tourney.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

It doesn't get much worse than last nights performance. Some serious questions need to be asked, the last for games have been totaly unacceptable.

He doesn't seem to know what his best team is. I've always rated Southgate, but he's picked a squad here with no left backs and players that are either tired or off form.

 

[hlane17]

People excusing for Southgate saying he's brought a renewed culture to England that has brought 'success'.

I don't recall winning anything even though we had favourable opportunities in both the last Euros and WC.

He risks becoming England's Mark Molesley with a negative approach that removes any chance we have of winning, and constantly messing about with iPads.

He picked our penalty takers on the basis of performance IN TRAINING for the Euro final ffs. Totally different when silverware is on the line and the experienced lads should have been given a shot.

If we don't perform in Qatar, it's time to go.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

As nauseating a performance as that was, England have made the final and the semi-final in their last two major tournaments, so business as usual would not be an early exit.

No you don’t understand: England always get knocked out by the first decent team they face. If a team gets beaten by England it follows that team wasn’t very good and therefore doesn’t count.

Wins against non-traditional powerhouses don’t count as they’re minnows, even if they’ve knocked out in order to play England the sort of team England should be judged against. Wins against traditional powerhouses can’t be given much weight if they’re having a poor year (eg are losing to England).

Moreover even if England did win, its a hollow victory if they didn’t attack for 90 minutes as good teams don’t defend, they just attack constantly for 90 minutes. You don’t get anywhere in international football by defending as Hungary showed us.

If England only win by a single goal they’ve scraped through and it was fluky. Set piece goals don’t count and scoring penalties when opponents resort to fouling you to stop you is also unsporting.

Results in qualifiers also don’t matter as qualification is a foregone conclusion (lol @Italy) and so they are glorified friendlies and everyone does well in them. Even though they offer seeding points that just means England get an easier draw meaning they are less likely to play a good side.

Think that covers it.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

There were some very good club England players out there last night but it is a team game and the side selected by GS was unbalanced and ineffective, the blame is on GS BUT more so on the FA for forcing him into this competition without caveats.
Too many players looked leggy, tired and there out of necessity.
The FA could have limited the squad to a 'development' type and rested ManC, Liverpool, Chelski or others that have played over, (just a guess figure) 20 games this calender year or 20 caps.
If the FA want England to be winning every time then they should be sacking GS for not using his best players and tinkering.
I don't think it is possible to have all, at the same time - that is resting players and playing strongest line up and using trialists.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No you don’t understand: England always get knocked out by the first decent team they face. If a team gets beaten by England it follows that team wasn’t very good and therefore doesn’t count.

Wins against non-traditional powerhouses don’t count as they’re minnows, even if they’ve knocked out in order to play England the sort of team England should be beating. Wins against traditional powerhouses can’t be given much weight if they’re having a poor year (eg are losing to England).

Moreover even if England did win, its a hollow victory if they didn’t attack for 90 minutes as good teams don’t defend, they just attack constantly for 90 minutes. You don’t get anywhere in international football by defending as Hungary showed us.

If England only win by a single goal they’ve scraped through and it was fluky. Set piece goals don’t count and scoring penalties when opponents resort to fouling you to stop you is also unsporting.

Results in qualifiers also don’t matter as qualification is a foregone conclusion (lol @Italy) and so they are glorified friendlies and everyone does well in them. Even though they offer seeding points that just means England get an easier draw meaning they are less likely to play a good side.

Think that covers it.

Not quite.Not managing a win in a Micky Mouse tournament in 4 group games,finishing bottom of the group with a 0-4 defeat at home to Hungary and not scoring a goal from open play in the process is pretty poor by anybody's standards (including England's).

 

[Southminster Shrimper]

Southgate is Mark Molesley without the iPads

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

My prediction is that we’ll do poorly in Qatar and Southgate will walk. Until then he’s going nowhere I don’t think, I’m not the biggest fan of his but I’ll be getting behind him and hoping for the best. What’s key is that we bounce back in September with a couple of morale boosting wins and some attacking flair to compensate for that ****show. Last night, too many players were already on the beach building sandcastles. Inspiring, it wasn’t.

Removing Southgate and his cautious tactics won’t resolve the key issues .. who can take the squad forward, if not him? Where are the goals coming from? How do we attack more without totally exposing our pretty average defence?

 

[southendkid]

France are also bottom of their group (and like us have 2 points after 4 matches), I wonder if their fans are also having a meltdown over our performances in a cup no one cared about last week? Southgate made 9 changes for this match and if you look at the lineup we had it's pretty clear he (and presumably the FA) were treating this as a chance for some fringe players to make their case, yes even considering that 4-0 is embarrassing but we clearly weren't too bothered about the result.

 

[RHB]

People excusing for Southgate saying he's brought a renewed culture to England that has brought 'success'.

I don't recall winning anything even though we had favourable opportunities in both the last Euros and WC.

He risks becoming England's Mark Molesley with a negative approach that removes any chance we have of winning, and constantly messing about with iPads.

He picked our penalty takers on the basis of performance IN TRAINING for the Euro final ffs. Totally different when silverware is on the line and the experienced lads should have been given a shot.

If we don't perform in Qatar, it's time to go.

This sounds as if you're willing the team and him to fail.

 

[hlane17]

This sounds as if you're willing the team and him to fail.

I want nothing more than England to succeed but rather jaded after two good runs in international competition that fell short. Much like with SUFC, I'm sick of us being losers.

WC vs Croatia we take the lead. Sit back and try to protect it, capitulate.

Euros vs Italy we take the lead. Sit back and try to protect it, once again capitulate.

WC in Qatar, right now I'm not even sure if we'll escape the group.

Some of our players are the best on the continent in European club competition, some playing in attacking, dynamic teams. I only see it as a failure when we cannot get the best out of them in an England shirt.

 

[WestStandBlue]

Those saying we won’t escape the group, that is laughable. We will get out the group, but either way as group winners or second we are unlikely to get past the quarter finals. I felt that was the case prior to this run of bad games , so believe it even more now.

 

[kaymac]

France are also bottom of their group (and like us have 2 points after 4 matches), I wonder if their fans are also having a meltdown over our performances in a cup no one cared about last week? Southgate made 9 changes for this match and if you look at the lineup we had it's pretty clear he (and presumably the FA) were treating this as a chance for some fringe players to make their case, yes even considering that 4-0 is embarrassing but we clearly weren't too bothered about the result.

Just how many fringe players does he have keep trying out, a majority just haven’t been good enough. There’s a big difference between playing at club and international levels. He should know of at least say 18 certs for the squad by now, if not gaud help us!

 

[Cricko]

Just how many fringe players does he have keep trying out, a majority just haven’t been good enough. There’s a big difference between playing at club and international levels. He should know of at least say 18 certs for the squad by now, if not gaud help us!

I agree, he has been coming out with statements of just seeing how players would fit in etc but he has 2 games left before the WC starts surely by now he knows most if not all of his squad for that, he has had long enough to.

Boregate is all he is and uses players to a system none of them play at in the Prem which makes most of them look rubbish out there.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

I agree, he has been coming out with statements of just seeing how players would fit in etc but he has 2 games left before the WC starts surely by now he knows most if not all of his squad for that, he has had long enough to.

Boregate is all he is and uses players to a system none of them play at in the Prem which makes most of them look rubbish out there.

It's a system that seems all too predictable, aswell. Kane up front. A couple of strikers either side. 2 holding central midfielders etc. Personally, i'd like to see Jack G in a free role...he knows how to unlock stubborn defences

 

[blueblueblue]

It's a system that seems all too predictable, aswell. Kane up front. A couple of strikers either side. 2 holding central midfielders etc. Personally, i'd like to see Jack G in a free role...he knows how to unlock stubborn defences

What I really don't understand is Kane coming deep all the time to collect the ball, I don't get it, by doing so gives us no outlet upfront to lead the line.

We could do with Vardy coming out of retirement, he's had another good season...

 

[southendkid]

Just how many fringe players does he have keep trying out, a majority just haven’t been good enough. There’s a big difference between playing at club and international levels. He should know of at least say 18 certs for the squad by now, if not gaud help us!

We do have some world class players but the problem is most of them all play in the same couple of positions.

Wingers and full backs I think we're sorted on but I honestly don't think we have a single centre midfielder that's world class, Declan Rice is probably the best we have and I don't think he'd start in a champions league side, I think Mount can play CM but he only looks good to me when he's further up the pitch. Without that we're not going to play good football because the skillful players need to know there's someone that will both play them in and also cover for them if they are out of position.

 

[hlane17]

What I really don't understand is Kane coming deep all the time to collect the ball, I don't get it, by doing so gives us no outlet upfront to lead the line.

We could do with Vardy coming out of retirement, he's had another good season...

He's doing that because he's being starved of possession and nobody in the midfield is grabbing the bull by the horns.

The gap between the front line and the midfield needs to be closed, and the solution might be more simple than you think. Maybe ditching at least one of the defensive midfielders would help.

Jordan Henderson is arguably the best England have in the end-to-end role yet always gets played deep. One good defensive midfielder breaking up play (Rice) combined with Henderson shuttling the ball through the lines could allow our best technicians the freedom to unlock the opposition.

At the moment we have no solid midfield base to build play upon. Nobody seems to want the ball.

 

[ozzie]

Strange how now to some people this has become the "Micky Mouse"cup,etc
But it was not like that last time when England done well,then the usual S/F mess up V Holland.We were favourites again to win the cup...went one up,went defensive and let the Dutch take control and got deservingly beaten 3-1...where have i seen that before !
Even GS said he wanted this Nat.league so he could test himself/ play his team against the best teams in Europe.
Not against teams like Bosnia,Serbia,Slovenia etc...oh sorry..looks like we will be playing these good teams next Nat.league coz it seems we are heading for group/leval B.
But dont worry when we beat these teams,the"sweet FA" will tell us we have the best young players and we will win the next W/C-euros.
I also watched the Germany v Italy game and the four players who play in the English Prem league all played well and did not look knackered after a long season.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Strange how now to some people this has become the "Micky Mouse"cup,etc
But it was not like that last time when England done well,then the usual S/F mess up V Holland.We were favourites again to win the cup...went one up,went defensive and let the Dutch take control and got deservingly beaten 3-1...where have i seen that before !
Even GS said he wanted this Nat.league so he could test himself/ play his team against the best teams in Europe.
Not against teams like Bosnia,Serbia,Slovenia etc...oh sorry..looks like we will be playing these good teams next Nat.league coz it seems we are heading for group/leval B.
But dont worry when we beat these teams,the"sweet FA" will tell us we have the best young players and we will win the next W/C-euros.
I also watched the Germany v Italy game and the four players who play in the English Prem league all played well and did not look knackered after a long season.

I think it would be given more importance if it wasn’t being played in a World Cup year. As it is it’s completely overshadowed.

Frankly if England win the World Cup nobody would care what England did in this tournament. And conversely if England would have won this tournament that wouldn’t save Southgate if England then got knocked out first round etc.