Fallon

[Lord Football]

Then answer me this. If a list from the Labour Whips Office had a list like this one, would anyone on here have singled out one particular person under the pretense of being concerned for the wellbeing of people affected by sexual harrassment, or worse or would it never have seen the light of day because its so ****ing biase on here lately that anything posted by trolls gets the green light but a sense of balance gets kicked into the long grass and glossed over when the boots on the other foot.

A pretty **** poor excuse as far as I'm concerned when a touch on the knee causes outrage but rape, sexual abuse and harassment doesn't raise a eyebrow where Labour are concerned. A bit like anti semitism and a failure to answer a yes/no question. But this must be the new type of politics we hear so much about.

Don't worry about sarcastic replies or dismissals, I'm just an angry man.

Thing is. As far as we know there isn't a Labour list. Or an SNP one. Or a Lib Dem one (don't want to be accused non inclusivity). The Tories have a list, you can see it on google. It's very simple to find and then comment on. I've said earlier, I personally think a lot of it should be taken with a pinch of salt. I think its based on tittle tattle, rumour and is used essentially to remind errand MPs which voting chamber they should appear in. But that's my view. I know as much, or as little, as the next person.

Would anyone on here comment if it was a Labour MP? I don't know. I stopped coming in this part of the board years ago because it was full of right wing nutjobs and it was a bit like smashing your face against a wall. I only venture in now because I've probably got the best insight into Brexit than anyone else here and someone decided in a fit of lunacy to make me a mod. But my point was made as a mod. You can't really complain if someone is posting about the thread title. Can you?

But, that aside, the man in question here was the Defence Secretary. It's quite an important role, and is quite an unsual resignation, made even more tasty by Angela Loathsome's alleged complaint. So yeah, it is worth a debate. I think Fallon knows something else is going to come out that's a bit more serious than touching someone's knee. No one resigns because they touched someone's knee and that person didn't take offence.

As for Labour, Kelvin Hopkins (who I know and have shared a platform with btw) has issued, via a solicitor, a 12 page denial and I see someone else (excuse me, names escapes) me has denied an accusation made against him, much in the same vain as Fabricant did yesterday. And the Dover MP has had the whip removed, but no one seems to have told him why.

I find the whole thing deeply disturbing. Have we elected a body of perverts, deviants, and sexual predators to represent the UK? Does Westminster double as some kind of swingers club? Or, and I think this is closer to the mark, are some people sticking the political knife in by whispering in Westminster corridors and speaking anonymously to the press. You know, once you've been accused of something, its very, very hard to unsmear yourself.

It's also taken the debate away from Brexit, which is handy as the Bill is likely to be debated in the next 10 days. But that could just be a huge massive co-incidence.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Deleted by Tangled.see MK got there first.:smile:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Not commenting just posting this up as a matter of interest

Press Statement of Kelvin Hopkins MP in response to press reports concerning allegations by Ava Etemadzadeh (hereafter ‘Ava’):

1. My first recollection of ever meeting Ava was at the Labour Party Conference in Manchester in September 2014. She was one of approximately 10 party activists who had been present at a fringe reception and who accompanied me and my daughter to an evening meal in Manchester for activists and supporters. She introduced herself as the Chair of Labour Students at Essex University and she joined in the general conversation around the dining table. As I usually do, I let her have my contact details.
2. I next came across Ava when I was canvassing in support of the Labour candidate in the Clacton-on Sea by-election on 9 October 2014. She was one of a number of Labour Party activists who joined me in leafleting and door knocking. I had no prior knowledge at all that Ava would be in Clacton for the by-election. I had a general chat with her about the by-election in the company of the other campaigners.
3. On 11 October 2014 Ava sent me a text message:
“Hi Kelvin, how are you? I was wondering if you would like to come to University of Essex to speak in one of our Labour society socials this term? x Ava”.
4. I then arranged, through the secretary of the student Labour society at Essex University, to speak at Essex on 12 November 2014. I arrived at Colchester mid-afternoon as the social event was due to start at 4.15 pm. I gave my speech to the students. It was a well received talk and involved a lively questions and answers debate with those who were there. After the event, Ava walked me to my car in the car park at the university. There were many people in the general area.
5. The allegation has been made and reported in the press that I “hugged her [Ava] inappropriately” (eg Telegraph newspaper 3 November 2017). Ava is reported to have said, “He hugged me to say goodbye, held me too tight and rubbed his crotch on me, which I found revolting”.
6. I absolutely and categorically deny that I in any way engaged in any such inappropriate conduct. I simply put an arm around her shoulder to give her a brief slight hug just before getting in to my car. I did not hold her tight. I did not rub any part of my body, let alone my crotch, against Ava. She waved me off as I drove away and did not say anything whatsoever to suggest that anything had occurred that upset her let alone revolted her. In fact after I left the University, Ava sent me a text message during the same evening of 12 November timed at 9 pm saying:
“Thank you so much Kelvin for coming tonight!! We had a fantastic time. My members loved you! �� You’re a star! x Ava”
7. On 15 December 2014 Ava sent me a text message:
“Hi Kelvin, how are you? Could you please send me your post address? I’d like to send you a Christmas card. x Ava”.
8. I gave her my address as House of Commons, Westminster London SW1A 0AA. Her card arrived on 17 December.
9. When I had visited Essex University I had made an invite to the students to visit the House of Commons. I often take groups and individuals on tours of the Palace of Westminster and often dine with my guests in the House. Arrangements were made for a group of about 8 students to come to Westminster early in 2015. I believe the group trip was cancelled but Ava still wanted to visit and came to Westminster on 2 February 2015. It is reported in the press that at that meeting I asked questions about her personal life and that I made her uncomfortable with a suggestion that I would have liked to take her to my office if it were empty. I have no recollection whatsoever of such conversations. I recall the meeting lasting about 2 hours including dining in the Strangers Dining Room which was buzzing with very many other parliamentarians and their guests also having lunch. Shortly after leaving Westminster Ava sent me the following text message on 2 February at 14:50:
“Thank you, Kelvin for today. It was lovely meeting you! �� xx”
10. On 16 February 2015 I did send a text message to Ava which included the reported words saying Ava was “charming and sweet natured” and that “a nice young man would be lucky to have you as a girlfriend and lover…Were I to be young…but I am not…”. She in fact replied to my text on the same day:
“Oh thank you Kelvin for such kind words. I was ill last week for a couple of days and also I had run for NUS delegate – they announced the results and I got elected with the highest number of votes!! So sorry if I couldn’t speak to you last week x”
11. My only contact with Ava since then was about a year ago when she made contact with me to discuss working in Westminster. She told me that she had applied for a job with a Labour MP and that although she had been shortlisted to the final 2 for the job she nevertheless did not get it. She wanted my advice on how she could possibly have done better. I called her from parliament and advised her that jobs with MPs are difficult to get and I told her for example that my office had no vacancies. I advised her that she should also think about working as a member of staff of the House of Commons and should think about the civil service. I also suggested that as she is bi-lingual (Ava is fluent in Farsi) she could also think about working with the Foreign Office. Our conversation was friendly.
12. I have had no contact with Ava since then and was shocked when I saw the allegations appear online last night and in the papers today. I have always wished and still do wish, Ava the very best of luck in pursuing the career in politics that she wants to follow. I am happy to fully cooperate with the Labour Party to bring to a swift conclusion the investigation that is now being carried out into my conduct.
Press Enquiries:
Martin Howe (Senior Partner) partners@howe.co.uk
​

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

A thorough reply on behalf of MP Hopkins.:thumbsup:
For an investigator it raises just a few snippets? His recollection of SO trivial a few meetings is perhaps too precise unless either something DID happen, OR he read the warning "bells" correctly, OR it is balls.!
And the crux is the "boyfriend" text alleged to have been sent by him, but not mentioned at all; easy(ish) to establish if it was sent ?

 

[RHB]

A thorough reply on behalf of MP Hopkins.:thumbsup:
For an investigator it raises just a few snippets? His recollection of SO trivial a few meetings is perhaps too precise unless either something DID happen, OR he read the warning "bells" correctly, OR it is balls.!
And the crux is the "boyfriend" text alleged to have been sent by him, but not mentioned at all; easy(ish) to establish if it was sent ?

It feels perfectly crafted by Martin Howe or one of the other partners, proof read and then approved by Kelvin Hopkins. It certain looks pre-emptive with more than a dash of witness statement to me.

 

[Pubey]

Seven cabinet ministers are reportedly considering their positions over this.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Seven cabinet ministers are reportedly considering their positions over this.

Please let it be Bojo & Gove.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It feels perfectly crafted by Martin Howe or one of the other partners, proof read and then approved by Kelvin Hopkins. It certain looks pre-emptive with more than a dash of witness statement to me.

I agree it seemed strangely detailed, but he was investigated previously for this closer to the time so I guess he prepared his defence then.
As an MP maybe you do keep every text you ever send as you never know what would be scrutinised. And obviously their diaries will be very thorough and kept by a secretary.
If he has all of these texts (and he must have) then his defence looks solid. She may have different evidence though.
As with most MPs I didn't even know he existed until this story so just going on what is written now.


Clive Lewis grabbing a woman's bum as part of a hug - I always assumed he was gay? Not that a gay man couldn't grab a female bum. That kind of thing is obviously a lot harder to prove / disprove than text messages.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Seven cabinet ministers are reportedly considering their positions over this.

where have you read this?
Looking at the front pages of today's right leaning papers:
Telegraph - 'Fallon schemed to have 'dud'Leadsom sacked over Brexit'
Daily Mail - 'Did Leadsom knife minister to save her job?'
Times - 'Fallon sex assault claim'

This is not the left keeping these stories going - it's the right that are attacking each other.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41870120

Harriet Harperson reckons there isn't a witch hunt over sexual harrassment atm.Funny, that's how it looks to me.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Not quite worth a new thread, but with Priti Patel negotiating with heads of state without permission on her holidays and Boris worsening the conditions for British citizens imprisoned in Iran, this government's not exactly going swimmingly at the moment, is it?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

10. On 16 February 2015 I did send a text message to Ava which included the reported words saying Ava was “charming and sweet natured” and that “a nice young man would be lucky to have you as a girlfriend and lover…

**vomits all over thread**

This is so cringeworthy he deserves to be sacked.

Not quite worth a new thread, but with Priti Patel negotiating with heads of state without permission on her holidays and Boris worsening the conditions for British citizens imprisoned in Iran, this government's not exactly going swimmingly at the moment, is it?

I'd say it's definitely worth a new thread: the Priti Patel thing is amazing.

How is that not a sacking offence(s)?

 

[Uncle Leo]

I'd say it's definitely worth a new thread: the Priti Patel thing is amazing.

How is that not a sacking offence(s)?

Well, it is. She is incredibly lucky to still be in that post and that she is indicates what a mess this mob are in. Feels a lot like the last few years of the Major government right now.

 

[EastStandBlue]

**vomits all over thread**

This is so cringeworthy he deserves to be sacked.



I'd say it's definitely worth a new thread: the Priti Patel thing is amazing.

How is that not a sacking offence(s)?

Both sackable offences, and under any other regime they'd be long gone.

Saw it posted on Twitter earlier, but to paraphrase; May's fallen into a vicious circle. She can't sack Patel and Johnson because she doesn't have any authority over her party, but her failure to sack the two of them only undermines her position further, so she'll struggle to sack the next cabinet minister that ****s up, which'll only undermine again. Ad nauseum.

Still, PMQs ought to be a laugh tomorrow.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Both sackable offences, and under any other regime they'd be long gone.

Saw it posted on Twitter earlier, but to paraphrase; May's fallen into a vicious circle. She can't sack Patel and Johnson because she doesn't have any authority over her party, but her failure to sack the two of them only undermines her position further, so she'll struggle to sack the next cabinet minister that ****s up, which'll only undermine again. Ad nauseum.

Still, PMQs ought to be a laugh tomorrow.

It's almost as if the right of her party is trying to sabotage the Brexit talks. How can the EU do a deal with May if one of her ministers is running a rival foreign policy without May's knowledge? And if you get round that, how can the EU do a deal with May when she doesn't have the authority to sack that minister?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

At least Fallon had the decency to resign.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Just remembered we're in recess from tomorrow, so no PMQs. Dodged a bullet there has May.

 

[Lord Football]

And the Welsh Minister who resigned at the week has died..... no further info.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Just remembered we're in recess from tomorrow, so no PMQs. Dodged a bullet there has May.

cancelled cabinet meeting too....

 

[EastStandBlue]

cancelled cabinet meeting too....

To be fair, I'm not sure what kind of constructive meeting you can have with a cabinet comprising one newly-appointed rookie, two ministers who should've been sacked and another under investigation.