Groups and Club update - The clubs dire situation, what can be done?

[Blues Heaven]

Disrupt games? Maybe if we get concrete information that we're in the ****, as per my post above. Unfortunately there are a tiny percentage of Southend fans that have fully grasped the seriousness of our current position, most people are content to hope for the best, bury their head in the sand and concentrate on the playing side.

Disrupting games is only an option when the majority of our fan base is rallying against the chairman. Otherwise, anyone who tries it is going to get short shrift from the crowd.

We're nowhere near a situation like Blackpool where all the fans are against the chairman.

At last the number of people who are becoming disgruntled and grasping the potentially very serious situation we find ourselves is beginning to rise.

We cannot just all sit back and do nothing. A well led campaign to find out the truth whether it's good or bad certainly appears appropriate.

The silence on FF which was to be the foundation of our future existence is deafening. Without it we are staring at ever increasing debts and a stadium which will soon be condemned as not being up to standard to host games.

 

[jaffa1]

So the board (a Blue Peter badge if you can name them) never broach the subject, challenge Ron on the Narnia Stadium's progress etc? I would love a gander at their minutes.....come to think of it, their accounts would be nice.

 

[RHB]

So the board (a Blue Peter badge if you can name them) never broach the subject, challenge Ron on the Narnia Stadium's progress etc? I would love a gander at their minutes.....come to think of it, their accounts would be nice.

Chairman - Ron

Directors - Michael Markscheffel, Gary Lockett, Frank Van Wezel, Geoffrey King, Steve Kavanagh & Danny Macklin

BP badge please.:smiles:

 

[Jai]

What would need to happen for the Shrimpers' Trust to have a representative on the club's board of directors? It would be a start.

 

[RHB]

What would need to happen for the Shrimpers' Trust to have a representative on the club's board of directors? It would be a start.

I think it's one of their long term aims according to their web page. If Ron is as secretive as has been suggested over FF, I doubt that being on the board would give them much more info than they get now. No doubt OBL will comment on this.

 

[Sherif H]

Mods - if you are happy for me to do so, I can copy and paste my thoughts on the current progress on FF from the stadium thread? May help many on here understand, in my opinion, why we are where we are re. FF?

 

[Sherif H]

So why can't we disrupt games?? Why can't we have the power to make life more difficult?

What's the plan trust???

And what's the contingency plan trust?

Have asked the same question previously on the stadium forum - response was that a contingency was held, but clearly nowhere near enough to prepare us for a transition should the (inevitable) happen - administration, and ultimately, bankruptcy

 

[mfurok]

What would need to happen for the Shrimpers' Trust to have a representative on the club's board of directors? It would be a start.

My recollection is that there was a firm promise of a Board seat for the Trust in 2012 following the infamous £60k loan a year or two previously.

I'm sure OBL will be able to confirm or otherwise.

 

[TrueBlue]

What I don't understand is why the trust is reluctant to engage on here

We need to address things i feel like we are sleep walking into oblivion

 

[Smiffy]

The Trust will never have enough money to "own" the club unfortunately. The money just isn't there. But, as representatives of the fanbase, I do feel they now need to be at the front of any planned protests towards the owner/board regards the awful financial state and lack of movement on FF. It's high time our supporter groups and supporters rallied on this. 16 years of ******** and £15m in the red. Time to act and make it clear we will not stand for it any longer.

Here is an example of supporters groups and fans uniting together and making their feelings known towards owners. Will it achieve anything?...probably not, they even admit that. But, they are making their feelings known at least -https://www.facebook.com/CharltonCARD/videos/536956403164671/

Support the team, not the regime. Great line that and something we should learn from and act accordingly...

Forget the crap results and your feelings toward the manager, this is a far far more important topic to address right now. We cannot continue the way we are. £15m in the red, no new stadium and posting losses of circa. £2m a season. Wake up people, before it is too late.

 

[Cricko]

Mods - if you are happy for me to do so, I can copy and paste my thoughts on the current progress on FF from the stadium thread? May help many on here understand, in my opinion, why we are where we are re. FF?

No sod off... :finger: Sherif said :

In short (and in response to Blue Heaven's query from yesterday)...

The sole reason a developer like British Land partners with a football club (like ours) is because they can forsee a decent long-term revenue or short-term capital return on their investment - in the case of FF, a down payment to help deliver the retail/commercial elements of the development to enable RM to have additional capital released to deliver the stadium element - ergo, the stadium cannot be delivered (in this instance) before securing the retail/commercial element, and signifies the importance of retaining our development partner.

The reason there is seemingly never an update on proceedings is because each time the market conditions change, the development mix (that is, the ratio of leisure to retail/commercial to residential etc...) needs to change to ensure maximum return on investment for both developer and RM. This throws up a largely irritating game of back and forth with the Local Authority Planning Department (in this case Southend BC), to whom a scoping opinion likely needs to be submitted each time there is a significant change in the proposals. The scoping opinion can take up to a month to receive a response, and will inform the applicant (in this case - RM/BL) whether the change in plans requires an environmental impact assessement to be undertaken.
The major issue with this, as far as I can see, is fourfold...
- Firstly, if you do need to submit another environmental impact assessment/report, then this can take months of continuous monitoring to complete, and nothing can be firmed up whilst this is ongoing
- Secondly, the planning system in this country is convoluted and unwavering when it comes timescales for response/comment/consultation/approval, so every time a new application is submitted it has to go through (potentially) months of the same process over and over again
- Thirdly, RM will be hemorrhaging money each time this happens - fees for designers, planning consultants, lawyers etc...
- Finally, in my humble opinion, many local authorities have planning committees who are strongly opposed to out-of-town retail development - basically anything which detracts from town/city centre High Streets. From what I can see, in Southend, there is a worrying abundance of empty, seemingly unlettable shop floorspace, and producing updated plans which keep loading more retail/commercial space into the mix can't be seen in a positive light

In summary, we are trying to get the balance right between a suitable planning mix to make the developer's investment worthwhile (and maybe this is why BL have allegedly pulled out...) and not ****ing off the planners - a tricky task which, you guessed it, takes a siginficant amount of time, effort and money.

 

[Sherif H]

Furthermore, people have eluded (elsewhere) that BL may have pulled out of the deal, which would appear odd, as they have history with the football club.

To clarify, the only link between the football club and BL is historic and indirect - Jamie Ritblat who is the son of the founder of BL, was a director of two of Ron's companies (SEL and Roots Hall Limited) between 2000 and 2003 - basically, the first iteration of the new stadium proposals (i.e. the 'John Main era'). He is the founder and still Chairman and Chief Exec of Delancey.
There is therefore no existing link between BL and any of Ron's companies from what I can see.

 

[Sherif H]

What would need to happen for the Shrimpers' Trust to have a representative on the club's board of directors? It would be a start.

Can't ever see this happening - why would Ron want to put himself in a position where he has to divulge previously sensitive information to a fan representative?
In my opinion, the only way of seriously challenging the current regime is for the Trust to formulate a robust business plan to potentially acquire Roots Hall through a combination of a fan share option, cash injection from a conglomerate of the local business community, and negotiations with the Local Authority...

 

[Jai]

Not just down to Ron though, isn't someone elected to a BoD? I have next to no knowledge of how boards of directors operate though so I could be wrong.

 

[Sherif H]

Not just down to Ron though, isn't someone elected to a BoD? I have next to no knowledge of how boards of directors operate though so I could be wrong.

Assuming the position would be on the board of Southend United Football Club Limited (a private limited company), then the Directors would, I believe, need to vote on any new membership, which makes it all the more unlikely.

The interesting point for me though, is that whilst it is a private company, a couple of limited share options were opened in the early 2000s, and prior to that (I believe) in Vic's time at the helm - I myself purchased a few token shares, so the question is, how is this dealt with?

 

[Ozzer]

I was on the committee for a good few years!!

I was tricked and shuffled out the back door as I intended to re-stand for election but did not see the email got no reminder and they neglected to remind me and assumed wrongly I did not wish to stand again! All very underhanded.

I never did follow the trust line with most things that did not go down well.

It's assumed that trust must cuddle up to the club and that's the solution well in my opinion that's only worked to a point.

I doubt other clubs would put up with all this crap.

Would I stand again? Hell yeah! Would they have me? No chance!

SUISA could have been something but that fizzled out

perhaps if you'd spoken up at meetings instead of saying little and then sniping from a computer then everyone would have benefited.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

No sod off... :finger: Sherif said :

In short (and in response to Blue Heaven's query from yesterday)...

The sole reason a developer like British Land partners with a football club (like ours) is because they can forsee a decent long-term revenue or short-term capital return on their investment - in the case of FF, a down payment to help deliver the retail/commercial elements of the development to enable RM to have additional capital released to deliver the stadium element - ergo, the stadium cannot be delivered (in this instance) before securing the retail/commercial element, and signifies the importance of retaining our development partner.

The reason there is seemingly never an update on proceedings is because each time the market conditions change, the development mix (that is, the ratio of leisure to retail/commercial to residential etc...) needs to change to ensure maximum return on investment for both developer and RM. This throws up a largely irritating game of back and forth with the Local Authority Planning Department (in this case Southend BC), to whom a scoping opinion likely needs to be submitted each time there is a significant change in the proposals. The scoping opinion can take up to a month to receive a response, and will inform the applicant (in this case - RM/BL) whether the change in plans requires an environmental impact assessement to be undertaken.
The major issue with this, as far as I can see, is fourfold...
- Firstly, if you do need to submit another environmental impact assessment/report, then this can take months of continuous monitoring to complete, and nothing can be firmed up whilst this is ongoing
- Secondly, the planning system in this country is convoluted and unwavering when it comes timescales for response/comment/consultation/approval, so every time a new application is submitted it has to go through (potentially) months of the same process over and over again
- Thirdly, RM will be hemorrhaging money each time this happens - fees for designers, planning consultants, lawyers etc...
- Finally, in my humble opinion, many local authorities have planning committees who are strongly opposed to out-of-town retail development - basically anything which detracts from town/city centre High Streets. From what I can see, in Southend, there is a worrying abundance of empty, seemingly unlettable shop floorspace, and producing updated plans which keep loading more retail/commercial space into the mix can't be seen in a positive light

In summary, we are trying to get the balance right between a suitable planning mix to make the developer's investment worthwhile (and maybe this is why BL have allegedly pulled out...) and not ****ing off the planners - a tricky task which, you guessed it, takes a siginficant amount of time, effort and money.

You are certainly more informed than the majority of us - thank you.

Just one question. Why has it taken 31 or 32 years since Vic Jobson first muted a new stadium with retail/leisure facilities - to get....errr absolutely nowhere whatsoever?
I have lost count of the number of clubs that have planned, designed, sought planning permission, achieved funding and actually bloody well built stadia out of town and with leisure and/or retail facilities.
Whilst I totally understand about 65% of your answer above - the key question on every Southend United supporter's lips is - WHY US??? Why are we the one club that has taken possibly five to ten times longer than any club I know of to get...errr NOWHERE!!!

Brighton & Hove Albion overcame many, many more obstacles than us. They first proposed The Amex years after Southend United launched (ha ha ha ha) the "new stadium". Is absolutely and utterly ridiculous. Possibly the longest running saga of any kind in the entire football pyramid.

My question to The Trust is - WHY US????

 

[Mick]

You are certainly more informed than the majority of us - thank you.

Just one question. Why has it taken 31 or 32 years since Vic Jobson first muted a new stadium with retail/leisure facilities - to get....errr absolutely nowhere whatsoever?
I have lost count of the number of clubs that have planned, designed, sought planning permission, achieved funding and actually bloody well built stadia out of town and with leisure and/or retail facilities.

Because the other clubs have been owned or backed by people of substance who have had the wherewithal to make things happen.

 

[Smiffy]

Because the other clubs have been owned or backed by people of substance who have had the wherewithal to make things happen.

Nail on head there Mick. This is the issue I have. Look, I dont blame Ron for not having the personal wealth to see this project to fruition. Not many including myself have or could. My issue is our club is bordering extinction as the owner cannot and will not give up a share of the pie to make it happen. All thats happening is the club is getting further and further in debt whilst he chases the impossible dream. 16 years and we are no nearer. Time is up. Move on or invite fresh investment before we all go down in flames. We need an alternative and we need it now. But Ron needs to put the idea out there first in public. The queue would be sizeable, but Ron will need to take a hit somewhere along the line. Not letting go will finish him and the club for good. Put the club up for sale Ron...

 

[Sherif H]

Because the other clubs have been owned or backed by people of substance who have had the wherewithal to make things happen.

The only stadium projects I know of which have been delivered in less than 15 years from inception to completion fall very broadly in to two categories - publically funded (three which I worked on most recently - Hull, Doncaster and Colchester - both local authority funded and managed), and cash-rich clubs delivering privately (e.g. Arsenal, Spurs etc.).

In reality, by their nature, all stadium projects take a long time to deliver, as, unless they are re-configuring on an existing site (a la Spurs), Clubs/Local Authorities struggle to find suitable sites upon which to build (regardless of whether it is green or brownfield), as developers who own key sites in an area will sit on them until market conditions provide them with the best opportunity to build/flip on to the highest bidder, and local development plans have usually allocated every piece of spare land to primary demand areas such as residential (to meet tough government quotas), retail or commercial.
Dependant upon size and location, you could also find your plans called in by the Secretary of State, and this adds untold delays to an already convoluted planning process.

The fundamental reason FF is taking so long to progress is because we are having to rely upon market conditions to forge our business plan (and therefore finalise each iteration of the development proposals), and funding partners are very fickle, and will disappear at the first sight of any risk - add in the delays mentioned re. obtaining planning, and you find yourself in a perpetual cycle of disappointment.