How would you like our trust to proceed?

[number11]

For me it's a question of fighting the battles we can win and not cutting our nose off to spite our face.
I'd replace the words "downtrodden fear and defeat" with "reluctant but necessary acceptance". I certainly don't think of a defeat in any way, shape or form. We are a couple of seasons or so away from a new stadium - there has been significant recent progress so it looks like it is happening at last - so I see that as a win.
I'm actually pretty optimistic re the on the pitch stuff and don't want to make things worse at this stage, which I think demonstrations will.
And as for the last highlighted part, you go on to answer your own question.

What I still struggle with is how the new stadium is a win for us? We don’t own it, there will be little to generate additional non-match day income. We are still saddled with a huge debt to Ron. So when it is all built that sounds great for Ron - how does it benefit us? I apologise if I have missed it but has Ron confirmed what will happen to the debt, security of tenure / rent charged and ability for the club to generate revenue? Or is the win simply that we get to watch the games sat in nicer plastic seats from one of the three sides?!

 

[TrueBlue]

Same old Culprits crop up every once a year when they want a Martin out protest. You don't see them on here any other time. Give it a rest, he's not going anywhere until FF is built.

Hope your not including me in that? My 22 thousand messages since 2003 tells a different story

 

[TrueBlue]

What I still struggle with is how the new stadium is a win for us? We don’t own it, there will be little to generate additional non-match day income. We are still saddled with a huge debt to Ron. So when it is all built that sounds great for Ron - how does it benefit us? I apologise if I have missed it but has Ron confirmed what will happen to the debt, security of tenure / rent charged and ability for the club to generate revenue? Or is the win simply that we get to watch the games sat in nicer plastic seats from one of the three sides?!

See this is the issue at hand as well, Ron has given no assurances or clarity on what happens after it is built,
Will he gift it to the club?
Why does there need to be a stadium management company who owns it?
Why can’t SUFC own it?

For me these are questions that needed answers and water tight assurances before we went down this path

 

[blueblueblue]

Hope your not including me in that? My 22 thousand messages since 2003 tells a different story

You do seem to be the spearhead who everyone "once a year" seems to follow....

For me, you had your chance last year to protest (which I had some support), but you were all talked away from it and you all fell for it.

Sorry, no support for any protests from me this time.

 

[TrueBlue]

You do seem to be the spearhead who everyone "once a year" seems to follow....

For me, you had your chance last year to protest (which I had some support), but you were all talked away from it and you all fell for it.

Sorry, no support for any protests from me this time.

who is asking you to protest? Indeed who is asking anybody to protest? The post is about what stance the trust should be taking with Ron.

We had our chance last year…. And we did protest and it happened and it forced at the time Ron Martin to take a back seat and let Tom Lawrence run the day to day at the club, the situation also brought Stan Collymore to the table, not to mention the national tv and radio interviews that took place because of it, I for example did an interview on talkSPORT all that raised the issue of what’s going on down at SUFC to a larger audience, links were formed with the Blackpool Trust who contacted us as a result of hearing what was going on and we had various zoom meetings with them where we gained valuable insight was gained.

Maybe they follow me because I act rather than sitting behind a keyboard procrastinating? end of the day the reality is nobody follows me so don’t delude yourself the protests were supported by every supporters group including the trust.

So by your logic… you supported protest…. But protest stopped which you think was wrong… but you don’t support protest as it stands?

But in all seriousness it’s you raising the point on protesting not me, the best tool to move ron is a buyout if that’s not something that can be achieved then we have to ensure Rons exit strategy safeguards the club but the bottom line is doing nothing and sitting back is not an option mate

 

[rayleigh dan]

who is asking you to protest? Indeed who is asking anybody to protest? The post is about what stance the trust should be taking with Ron.

We had our chance last year…. And we did protest and it happened and it forced at the time Ron Martin to take a back seat and let Tom Lawrence run the day to day at the club, the situation also brought Stan Collymore to the table, not to mention the national tv and radio interviews that took place because of it, I for example did an interview on talkSPORT all that raised the issue of what’s going on down at SUFC to a larger audience, links were formed with the Blackpool Trust who contacted us as a result of hearing what was going on and we had various zoom meetings with them where we gained valuable insight was gained.

Maybe they follow me because I act rather than sitting behind a keyboard procrastinating? end of the day the reality is nobody follows me so don’t delude yourself the protests were supported by every supporters group including the trust.

So by your logic… you supported protest…. But protest stopped which you think was wrong… but you don’t support protest as it stands?

But in all seriousness it’s you raising the point on protesting not me, the best tool to move ron is a buyout if that’s not something that can be achieved then we have to ensure Rons exit strategy safeguards the club but the bottom line is doing nothing and sitting back is not an option mate

Agreed, the protest last year had a great result in getting Stan officially involved and the new management in place. I appreciate your passion for the club, and if we need to protest again I’m 100% behind you.

 

[TrueBlue]

Agreed, the protest last year had a great result in getting Stan officially involved and the new management in place. I appreciate your passion for the club, and if we need to protest again I’m 100% behind you.

If the protest proved one thing is that this is a battle that has to be done on many fronts, protesting alone does not solve it, all that will do is show displeasure. What we need is answers and solutions and the trust are the best placed and the right organisation to do that.

 

[JD]

See this is the issue at hand as well, Ron has given no assurances or clarity on what happens after it is built,
Will he gift it to the club?
Why does there need to be a stadium management company who owns it?
Why can’t SUFC own it?

For me these are questions that needed answers and water tight assurances before we went down this path

Q1 - no
Q2 - it doesn’t have to, but for tax reasons and offsetting group losses/profits (most likely), it will be that way
Q3 - because SUFC would have to buy it to own it (it won’t be given to SUFC)

What Ron has said is that he will write off the debt SUFC owes to him once it’s all built.

He’ll then expect the club to pay him (or the company that owns it) rent (so long as he doesn’t own the club anymore) - pretty sure he has said the club will not pay rent whilst he owns the club (same arrangement as now I would guess, i.e no actual payment but building up a debt on the balance sheet)

 

[Crawliano]

Ok, hypothetically you buy ClubCo. Ron keeps hold of StadCo, the only means of raising funds at this point is selling assets, e.g. the players. What is the point in that? There’s no long termism there at all.

Any buyer needs their mitts on StadCo as well and that is nuts deep in all of RM’s bigger picture plans. So back to the original narrative, who has the money to make selling the entire development worthwhile? Anybody who just wants ClubCo is either 1) mental or 2) possessing bottomless pockets.

Like it or not we have to trust the process, throwing toys out the pram is just going to create undue stress.

I’m not RM, don’t go claiming your £5 fyi

 

[Crawliano]

See this is the issue at hand as well, Ron has given no assurances or clarity on what happens after it is built,
Will he gift it to the club?
Why does there need to be a stadium management company who owns it?
Why can’t SUFC own it?

For me these are questions that needed answers and water tight assurances before we went down this path

With most new stadium builds the company is split in two, ClubCo and StadCo. It’s all an accountancy trick basically, you can sell seats between the two entities etc and balance the books. You need both to move things forward, split it all and we will end up like Oxford and moving again in 15-20 years

 

[kentblues]

With most new stadium builds the company is split in two, ClubCo and StadCo. It’s all an accountancy trick basically, you can sell seats between the two entities etc and balance the books. You need both to move things forward, split it all and we will end up like Oxford and moving again in 15-20 years

The split is of course common sense. Most football clubs lose lots of money- ClubCo goes bust but stadium is StadCo and doesn’t go with it.

 

[JD]

Ok, hypothetically you buy ClubCo. Ron keeps hold of StadCo, the only means of raising funds at this point is selling assets, e.g. the players. What is the point in that?m, there’s no long termism there at all.

Any buyer needs their mitts on StadCo as well and that is nuts deep in all of RM’s bigger picture plans. So back to the original narrative, who has the money to make selling the entire development worthwhile? Anybody who just wants ClubCo is either 1) mental or 2) possessing bottomless pockets.

Like it or not we have to trust the process, throwing toys out the pram is just going to create undue stress.

I’m not RM, don’t go claiming your £5 fyi

You can rent a stadium and take all the income, match day and non match day.
You don’t have to own it.

 

[JD]

The split is of course common sense. Most football clubs lose lots of money- ClubCo goes bust but stadium is StadCo and doesn’t go with it.

Unless the stadium is used as collateral.

 

[rigsby]

Money talks mate you know that, and if you get a prospective buyer who has the pockets and the offer is right I’m sure even Ron ‘Ego’ Martin has a price to hand it over.

I can’t go into the detail that’s sensitive but Carl Reader knows this very well

l

Unless the stadium is used as collateral.

Which RH was by previous owners. Thats the reason we ended up with Ron.

 

[rigsby]

Money talks mate you know that, and if you get a prospective buyer who has the pockets and the offer is right I’m sure even Ron ‘Ego’ Martin has a price to hand it over.

I can’t go into the detail that’s sensitive but Carl Reader knows this very well

Indeed. Carl and Co have hinted they are interested in the whole project. I'm told Ron has spoke of a figure.

If the whole project is worth £400m the price of the land would be somewhere between £100m and £130m.

Good luck to which ever mug ends up owning it. I wouldn't invest £100 any small club out of town project.

 

[LeedsSUFC]

Indeed. Carl and Co have hinted they are interested in the whole project. I'm told Ron has spoke of a figure.

If the whole project is worth £400m the price of the land would be somewhere between £100m and £130m.

Good luck to which ever mug ends up owning it. I wouldn't invest £100 any small club out of town project.

I would price the whole project (Housing at FF and RH, training facility, stadium) at around £470 million... Using figures of average flat price in SS2 and stadium price from Brentford's 17k seater stadium.

Plus the fact Ron would want rent on Roots Hall.

Plus the fact that the new owners would have to maintain Roots Hall.

Add on the clubs debt.

Add on the fact it costs to run a football club.

Most of the money the investors spend will probably get back in property sales on FF + RH (if they took over the developments). The biggest question going forward though is after the houses are built what's the plan? You can't be telling me that a pension investment fund in Monaco is interested in funnelling money into a national league / league 2 side endlessly.

For Ron - he is only responsible for himself. The man and his money have no stakeholders, he can continue writing his companies into debt and continue diving into any money he has to keep Southend United afloat (As he has done for years now. He could've easily ****ed the club by now, let us go bust and make RH / FF all housing.

A Monacan pension fund will be responsible for showing their stakeholders why they are investing money and the value Southend United represents. Once that representation of value shows **** all (when the housing is sold), they could easily **** us. Disappear.

 

[JD]

A Monacan pension fund will be responsible for showing their stakeholders why they are investing money and the value Southend United represents. Once that representation of value shows **** all (when the housing is sold), they could easily **** us. Disappear.

Exactly, this is why I asked if Carl and his group of backers would be interested in buying the club, minus the development, and then buying the stadium or renting it once built. Can’t see how any Monaco pension fund would get enough of a return on just that bit.

If they are only interested if the whole caboodle is on the table then I would have major concerns about their involvement long term.

 

[Hadleigh-shrimper]

At Blackpool they initially thought that about Oyston , I don’t pretend to have the answers but it’s been made to happen elsewhere so why is Southend any different?

No no no we don’t need that would affect results

 

[andykn]

No.

I don't see how the Blackpool model, where AFAIK one owner put the club into receivership in a dispute with the other owner, helps us at all. Ron doesn't want to sell and, unlike the Blackpool case, no-one can force him to.

Will the trust removing support help persuade Ron to sell? Can't see it myself.

 

[amsemp]

I don’t think many would disagree that this club needs a change, at the top. Ron’s relationship with many fans is beyond repair and I think fans trusting a chairman with the custody of their beloved club is vital. I’m not sure how many of us can say hand on heart that we trust our club in Ron’s hands. I don’t doubt he loves this club too and is doing his best, but the unpaid wages, court appearances etc. embarrass the club and put us in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. I’ve lost count of the amount of times someone has found it hilarious to point out to me that we were back in court again.

I’m almost certain Ron can sell the club with his nest egg intact. But I feel like it’s more of an ego game for him at the moment and his pride is getting in the way. He wants to say I told you so to everyone who doubted the new stadium and wants to see it through. On one hand I can’t blame him, but on the other hand, we need to remember we’re a football club in a results business - and two relegations in two years whilst eyes were taken off the ball is unacceptable. As was hearing that Solihull weren’t remotely interested in taking an IOU from Ron.

Do I think it’s time for a change, yes. Do I realistically see it happening, absolutely not. That’s pretty much where we’re at to be honest.