If your loved ones have to go into a Care Home

[OldBlueLady]

Equity release has improved a lot in more recent years, 15 - 20 years ago there were some awful situations. Do make sure you / your folks understand what it is you're agreeing to before signing.

 

[rigsby]

One thing you should do is not skimp on proper financial advise by someone who specialises in this area.

Do not listen to myths and remember rules can quickly change. I bought my Mothers share in their house 22 years ago. That was long before she was diagnosed with any dementia and it was to save any potential future problems from the step side of the family.

My mother can not be left on her own and as my step father increasingly struggles we are approaching that dreadful decision day for me and my sister. Technically the state could still ask me to pay if they think I have benefitted. The fact that I never charged them any rent actually goes against me and half of my half is for my sister. So I certainly haven't gained anything but I shall worry about that later.

Its not just care homes that rinse you even these home help companies charge about £17/18 per hour whilst paying minimum wage. The final straw for me was when they sent a man to wash my mum, which my step dad immediately blocked. My mother is still aware enough when she is in her own home to be far to aware of that and it was certainly upsetting for my step dad.

The stroppy and deliberately sneering managerial bitch on the end of the phone claimed its no different to being in hospital. It certainly is not and I had to make it clear what would happened if some wrong'un turned up again.

After that we now employ someone privately. She worked in the industry and is the ex wife of a good friend of mine. We pay her £12 per hour, cash obviously but my mum feels totally comfortable with her and they laugh and sing songs whilst she gets her ready in the morning. I take my mum out on Wednesdays so the girl stays and does the cleaning for us as well.

Previous to this there were days when my mum would not get out of bed because some new and emotionless Eastern European would be ordering her and mum felt uncomfortable.....She could not understand why they where there.

The big plus point is we don't need endless and pointless 'assessment' by incompetent buffoons. I sat through one by a woman who seemed to have no grasp of dementia only to be told that we needed another as the wrong woman had been sent as she shouldn't be covering Hullbridge.

I refused anymore as it is dangerous for elderly people to have endless people with an I.D tags turning up.......That is exactly why old people get scammed.

If anyone has experiences of local care homes, your advice would be welcome on here.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

^^^^
My mum spent some time at the council run rehab and care home at the bottom of Prittlewell Chase nr Roots Hall, and, imo. it was clean, efficient, well run and engaging with the oldsters. It is being expanded now on the old Burr Hill Chase School site. And hopefully it will continue to be as good but available for more persons.

 

[Blueronron]

My aunt lives in Corringham and has dementia getting worse every day,carers come in and find kettles thrown away,microwave in down stairs waste bins,refusing to wash and drink
After being assessed she is too far gone to go into a residence self care home, we have been told she is not severe enough to go into full time care and must wait until she either (a) Be found on the floor and unable to get up (B) Go out and not remember to get home (c) Go into hospital and then a Doctor will sign her over

She opened the door in just knickers to the carer who analysed her (Must have been a shock for him ) and still he said its not a problem to gain extra points, though he didn't go in and waited till a female arrived and same thing happened and again they said its not normal but not enough to be worried about !!!

80 years old,hardly a day ill at work and we treat people like this, my mum and father in law are in their late 80s and driving them to an early grave

They look at her bank account, say get in more assistance,but when she refuses they cannot do any more, feel for the carers so much,but our priority is her, so constant calling people,who I am sure have me on block or not in office mentality when I ask for them by name

The only winner will be the fat cat homes who rake in the monies when the time comes,God only hope is when our time comes something will be put in place to safe guard vunerable people

 

[londonblue]

I think if you go into Care in big Cities they can't cope with the numbers and the quality of the care reduces, if you go into care in a smaller place it is more relaxed and friendly.

Mum lived in Heacham near Hunstanton and frankly care is the biggest employer in the village. Unfortunately for my brother and I it was a minimum of a six hour return drive.

In Mums case, her and Dad retired from Southend to Norfolk about 1980.They were very happy there until dad died about 2005, Mum was poorly equipped to cope by herself but wouldn't move back to Southend as Dementia kicked in we started getting carers in eventually four times a day. Eventually after a couple of falls we had no choice to put her into a home, a heart braking decision.

When in the home some of the carers already new her and her neighbours would visit sometimes three or four times a week. It would have been easier for us to move her back to Southend but after a shaky start she settled in well and it became clear that she was best in Norfolk.

There were 24 residents but always at least 6 members of staff to care for them, everyone of them made a great fuss or her and they would go in and night and kiss her goodnight. The staff worked very hard and there was always something going on. However it was a dementia home and you couldn't having a meaningful conversation with the residents.

We used to take loads of old photographs, she saw them as new every time, she couldn't remember the last 40 years but go back to pre1980 she remembered every detail.

Interesting that she could remember everything pre-retirement. It's also a shame because, as you say, her and your dad were very happy there, and in the end she couldn't even remember it.

I guess, from your perspective, even though it was hard for you and your brother, at least you know she was happy and (in the end) well cared for.

 

[kaymac]

The care home business has a captive market with a non-stop flow of potential customers hence they can charge what they like whilst paying staff at minimum rates to maximise profits.
The four homes we visited whilst looking for placements for my mum (and mother-in-law in Norfolk) varied greatly in quality of establishment and in staff care. My mum was on a 4 week EOL at Southend Hospital (and lived in Prittlewell Chase) yet nearly ended up in a home in Benfleet which had several residents wandering about like zombies and a few others constantly shouting loudly, often abusively. Sadly mum died the same day a place became available at Fairhavens.

 

[Chrisb]

One thing you should do is not skimp on proper financial advise by someone who specialises in this area.

Do not listen to myths and remember rules can quickly change. I bought my Mothers share in their house 22 years ago. That was long before she was diagnosed with any dementia and it was to save any potential future problems from the step side of the family.

My mother can not be left on her own and as my step father increasingly struggles we are approaching that dreadful decision day for me and my sister. Technically the state could still ask me to pay if they think I have benefitted. The fact that I never charged them any rent actually goes against me and half of my half is for my sister. So I certainly haven't gained anything but I shall worry about that later.

Its not just care homes that rinse you even these home help companies charge about £17/18 per hour whilst paying minimum wage. The final straw for me was when they sent a man to wash my mum, which my step dad immediately blocked. My mother is still aware enough when she is in her own home to be far to aware of that and it was certainly upsetting for my step dad.

The stroppy and deliberately sneering managerial bitch on the end of the phone claimed its no different to being in hospital. It certainly is not and I had to make it clear what would happened if some wrong'un turned up again.

After that we now employ someone privately. She worked in the industry and is the ex wife of a good friend of mine. We pay her £12 per hour, cash obviously but my mum feels totally comfortable with her and they laugh and sing songs whilst she gets her ready in the morning. I take my mum out on Wednesdays so the girl stays and does the cleaning for us as well.

Previous to this there were days when my mum would not get out of bed because some new and emotionless Eastern European would be ordering her and mum felt uncomfortable.....She could not understand why they where there.

The big plus point is we don't need endless and pointless 'assessment' by incompetent buffoons. I sat through one by a woman who seemed to have no grasp of dementia only to be told that we needed another as the wrong woman had been sent as she shouldn't be covering Hullbridge.

I refused anymore as it is dangerous for elderly people to have endless people with an I.D tags turning up.......That is exactly why old people get scammed.

If anyone has experiences of local care homes, your advice would be welcome on here.

I can't offer any advice on local homes as my experience with Mum was nearly 15 years ago and a lot has changed. What I will say though is, difficult as it is, start looking around before you really feel you need to. I think it is easier to visit the homes with a little less pressure to make a quick decision, also you may have to wait a while for a space in your chosen one.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I can't offer any advice on local homes as my experience with Mum was nearly 15 years ago and a lot has changed. What I will say though is, difficult as it is, start looking around before you really feel you need to. I think it is easier to visit the homes with a little less pressure to make a quick decision, also you may have to wait a while for a space in your chosen one.

And be sure to get both medical and financial power of attorney well before it is needed.
Get a proper will, keep it simple and transparent to all interested persons.
Also try and get family onside to have only limited named persons (preferably just one) as named executor of the will - any others will either have to sign everything or get verified solicitor witnessed authority to be taken of executor status - all unnecessary hassle.
And don't tell banks etc immediately upon death as accounts will be frozen and that can be bothersome for direct debits etc.

 

[GBJ]

I see a lot of people mentioning the minimum wage problem for carers.

It’s not just the low-wages that destroy them, it’s the fact that they’re sometimes doing the job of two or three people. It’s simply unsustainable.

The turnover in staff is incredible, because the working conditions laid out by the fat cat owners, are largely unbearable.

A bit anecdotal I know, but around 5-6 years ago, there was a young girl working for one of the care homes in Grays. She was worked into the ground over the course of two weeks, and eventually went into hospital with exhaustion.

72 hours later she was released & told to rest. Later that afternoon she got a call from her manager, asking how she was, and if she’d be available to do a night shift, that same night, as they were short (as usual). She quit that day & last I heard, had left the profession altogether.

 

[Maldon Shrimper]

One of the biggest problems most of us will experience is getting our parents to discuss and talk about this.My Mum was happy for me to deal with it but unfortunately my father in law wouldn't which made it very difficult. I would recommend you do your research in what you are entitled to as unfortunately the authorities aren't always forthcoming in informing you so if you believe that you aren't getting what you are entitled you can challenge them,believe me it works

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Just on the subject of dementia, I have helped a few old people in my time, and a few have had dementia. I am helping a friend now, but she's recently gone into a care home. I visit her twice a week. I was helping her almost every day when she was in her home. When the dementia sets in, it's pointless talking about last week, as they've forgot. But as a few have already mentioned, if you talk to them about their childhood, or what happened during or after the war, or 40 years ago, they can remember everything. Luckily, I am very interested in people and their stories.
The other thing as mentioned, is the worrying stage when you think they should be in a care home, but they don't want to go in one. They will be doing all sorts of things to make you think they should be in one. I would get phone calls in the middle of the night, as they would get confused with time. They'd try and cook a dinner at 4am, and all that sort of thing. Cooking becomes a big issue, as they forget things are in the oven or microwave. So I would unplug everything and end up cooking for them, until their family sorts out a carer to do it. You have to give them their medication, as they get confused and forgetful. Things get put where they shouldn't be. Lots of things get lost, and you have to find it for them, or they can get over worried or agitated. Then they forget names, even close family members. That can be upsetting for that family member.
When you get the social services and dementia team in, they will test the person with lots of questions, memory and common sense based, and asking about their daily routine. Starting with what's your full name, address and date of birth. Most people with dementia will get 2 or 3 of those 3 starting questions wrong.
The thing is, the dementia team will say he or she can stay in their home, as they still have capacity(you hear that a lot), but you know they shouldn't, as you fear something bad may happen when they are alone (and it does every time, in my experience). So you want them to go in a home before something happens, but you will find the dementia team want them in a care home after something happens. Especially if there's any cost to the government, they will keep passing them fit to stay at home. The other thing is to try and not correct them when they get things wrong when they are telling you about something, just go along with it as much as possible, otherwise they can get confused and angry or upset. Just correct them when necessary. Going for a walk, getting lost, and being brought back by a kind stranger is common.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I work with a lady who lost her father to dementia about 10 years ago and is now dealing with her mother having it. They have had to have the gas disconnected at her property as she kept leaving it on, so she just has a microwave - and Wiltshire Farm food meals stacked up in the freezer.

She's put cameras in so she can monitor her while she's at work or at her own home as she's had two falls. She has carers who come in twice a day, who had to be drilled not to ask her if she'd eaten as she always said yes, but just to prepare the food my colleague asked at the start of the week. Her mum is not ready for bed until gone 11 pm every night so my colleague and her brother take it in turns to go in and put her to bed - means she can sometimes be up till midnight when she's working full time, and has leukaemia!

Her mum will get fixated on certain things and continually phone her at work, sometimes 10 or 12 times in an hour asking the same thing - usually when is she going home (she's remembering the house she lived in previously), where's her car or where's her mum. Really sad.

 

[Blueronron]

I can't offer any advice on local homes as my experience with Mum was nearly 15 years ago and a lot has changed. What I will say though is, difficult as it is, start looking around before you really feel you need to. I think it is easier to visit the homes with a little less pressure to make a quick decision, also you may have to wait a while for a space in your chosen one.

Though I agree with your summary Chris B,the problem now are places are so hard to come by, its literally you take a place or its gone especially ones that look good and have favourable comments,its not until the person is in the home and the change in circumstances causes a reaction that you find how good the staff are in coping with a situation

 

[Blueronron]

Just on the subject of dementia, I have helped a few old people in my time, and a few have had dementia. I am helping a friend now, but she's recently gone into a care home. I visit her twice a week. I was helping her almost every day when she was in her home. When the dementia sets in, it's pointless talking about last week, as they've forgot. But as a few have already mentioned, if you talk to them about their childhood, or what happened during or after the war, or 40 years ago, they can remember everything. Luckily, I am very interested in people and their stories.
The other thing as mentioned, is the worrying stage when you think they should be in a care home, but they don't want to go in one. They will be doing all sorts of things to make you think they should be in one. I would get phone calls in the middle of the night, as they would get confused with time. They'd try and cook a dinner at 4am, and all that sort of thing. Cooking becomes a big issue, as they forget things are in the oven or microwave. So I would unplug everything and end up cooking for them, until their family sorts out a carer to do it. You have to give them their medication, as they get confused and forgetful. Things get put where they shouldn't be. Lots of things get lost, and you have to find it for them, or they can get over worried or agitated. Then they forget names, even close family members. That can be upsetting for that family member.
When you get the social services and dementia team in, they will test the person with lots of questions, memory and common sense based, and asking about their daily routine. Starting with what's your full name, address and date of birth. Most people with dementia will get 2 or 3 of those 3 starting questions wrong.
The thing is, the dementia team will say he or she can stay in their home, as they still have capacity(you hear that a lot), but you know they shouldn't, as you fear something bad may happen when they are alone (and it does every time, in my experience). So you want them to go in a home before something happens, but you will find the dementia team want them in a care home after something happens. Especially if there's any cost to the government, they will keep passing them fit to stay at home. The other thing is to try and not correct them when they get things wrong when they are telling you about something, just go along with it as much as possible, otherwise they can get confused and angry or upset. Just correct them when necessary. Going for a walk, getting lost, and being brought back by a kind stranger is common.

Have to say this is a top post SNB ,they got the aunt to make a cup of tea,and she told them of course she could and put the tea bag in the kettle to boil up. Five minutes later they asked her to make a cup of tea and she looked blank,so heart breaking to watch and listen

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Have to say this is a top post SNB ,they got the aunt to make a cup of tea,and she told them of course she could and put the tea bag in the kettle to boil up. Five minutes later they asked her to make a cup of tea and she looked blank,so heart breaking to watch and listen

Thanks very much, just hope it helps someone going through it. It is heartbreaking, you're right. The hardest to deal with in my experience, are those that keep phoning you or a family member every 10 minutes asking the same question, as OBL mentioned. They get fixated on something. So they might phone or ask you in person, for example ''What have you been doing today''? Or, ''Is it going to rain later''? You tell them, and then every 5 minutes, they ask the same question. Or they might ask if you want a cup of tea, knowing they would struggle and it's a danger to do that, you say no, but every 2 minutes you get asked if you want a cup of tea, as obviously they have forgot they have asked you. To get around that one, I would always say it's my turn to make the hot drinks, and their turn to sit down and relax. The fixation comes in many forms. A handbag one is common. They will take everything out of their handbag looking for something. Find it, put it back, and then every 5 minutes start again, and repeat, until you can break the cycle. A lot of things can be on repeat with some people with dementia, it can go on for hours, or all day, so you have to break the cycle. One of those I looked after forgot her daughters name and that she was her daughter. That was extremely upsetting and heartbreaking for her as they were so close. Some of them not only just remember memories and times long gone, but also think they are in those times. They will say they should be at school or work today, and they'll get in trouble, and that you have to help get them there, even tho they are over 80. Dementia really is a curse that has exploded on us the last 20 years or so. It wasn't so common back in the day. Maybe it is because people are living longer, I don't know. I really feel for anyone dealing with someone with it, as it's extremely challenging and difficult. My heart goes out to you.

 

[rigsby]

I work with a lady who lost her father to dementia about 10 years ago and is now dealing with her mother having it. They have had to have the gas disconnected at her property as she kept leaving it on, so she just has a microwave - and Wiltshire Farm food meals stacked up in the freezer.

She's put cameras in so she can monitor her while she's at work or at her own home as she's had two falls. She has carers who come in twice a day, who had to be drilled not to ask her if she'd eaten as she always said yes, but just to prepare the food my colleague asked at the start of the week. Her mum is not ready for bed until gone 11 pm every night so my colleague and her brother take it in turns to go in and put her to bed - means she can sometimes be up till midnight when she's working full time, and has leukaemia!

Her mum will get fixated on certain things and continually phone her at work, sometimes 10 or 12 times in an hour asking the same thing - usually when is she going home (she's remembering the house she lived in previously), where's her car or where's her mum. Really sad.

I would urge anyone in the same situation to do the same. You might have to make something up or switch to electric. They will tell you they have always used gas and are fine and it makes you feel guilty but I will give you a couple of personal stories

We were once called to a fire and explosion, which turned out to be Gas. An old couple lived in the house and the man died in the explosion and the woman about 3 hours later in hospital. Another time a woman had caught her dressing gown sleeve alight over the gas and I did the first aide on her....Poor old girl had wanted to keep her independence but was in a real state staring at me without a clue as to what had just happened.

 

[KevinJH]

I wasn't going to say any more following another fairly similar thread from a few weeks/months ago but thought I would add this as something to be aware of;

Whilst some/most health authorities and care and residential homes work differently, the one we came under for the mother-in-law threw a bit of a spanner in the works when, on each occasion she was admitted into hospital for whatever infection or illness contracted, the care home had to send a representative along to assess if she was ok to return. Bearing in mind; this care home charged £1650 per WEEK for residential, assisted (which included all dementia scales) and end of life care i.e. the whole gamut.

The final time the m-i-l went in, we had a call from the hospital saying "would you come and get your relative please as the care home are refusing to take her back". WTF ?! Needless to say the stress levels rose a tad quick and many, many phone calls later we managed to 'convince' to the point of legal threats, the home to do the bloody job they were being paid more than amply for. We think we managed to shield her from all this unnecessary BS but sadly she passed very shortly afterwards (which wasn't unexpected).

It was ironic that the best care she received was the end-of-life care with the full time, qualified nurses and carers at the home - it was just their 'official' red tape, management level garbage we had to fight through that put the home - or rather, it's management - in such a very poor light.

 

[Tinks]

My Mother died last year at the age of 91.

She had dementia for the last few years and three years had to go into a home. It cost about £3,100 a month but the care she received was very good and as she had company 24 hours a day I believe she was quite happy. We had to pay a little extra for having her hair done, nails done etc which usually came to about £75.00 a quarter.

As stated before the care was excellent BUT the accounts dept of the care group was not. When Mum died we asked for the final bill expecting to be a bit less than £75.00 but were quite shocked to receive a bill of about £13,500.

This we are told was made up as follows:

• We didn't pay and wasn't asked for the first 2 months and we assumed it was "respite" and free. We asked several times for clarification but heard nothing.
• We paid monthly as was requested but are now told that it should have been four weekly not monthly so we had only paid 12 out of 13 payments each year.

Several people have told us very similar stories it appears to be a common practice and the solicitor was not surprised and the payment will be made to the care home when probate is finalised.

My brother and I had sold Mums house and their is enough to cover this cost but as we were paying over £36,000 a year for her care but had she lived another year or so this money would be gone and we would have been liable.

I'm posting this as a warning to anyone would is/or could be in this situation

Pete,
I wished you had called me to chat as I could have have helped you navigate the system and point out some not so well known bits.
Happy to chat if you like - let me know as I have worked in this system for donkeys years and what I don’t know I can easily find out. Xx

 

[DoDTS]

Pete,
I wished you had called me to chat as I could have have helped you navigate the system and point out some not so well known bits.
Happy to chat if you like - let me know as I have worked in this system for donkeys years and what I don’t know I can easily find out. Xx

Thanks Jackie that's very kind but its all over now.

Mum wouldn't move back to Southend so it was all 130 odd miles away in Norfolk. She had carers coming in four times a day which worked well for a couple of years but then she had a couple of falls in quick succession the second time breaking her wrist and she was admitted to hospital. After a week or so the hospital phoned and said could someone come and stay with her a couple days to settle her at home. My brother was away, my wife who was not too well and had to look after the dogs so it was me that went.

They did not tell me she was off her legs and could barely stand let alone walk. I spent a week trying to care for her but even with the carers it was impossible task. She was no light weight and trying to manoeuvre her to the commode was exhausting and undignified.

Social services were very sympathetic but gave me no real help, there workload must be enormous and while I was there they were quite prepared to leave it to me. After a third fall in the night I called 111 and they sent a doctor who put in a letter to her GP that she had to go in a home.

Social serves were not happy about this but they that day found a home for Mum only ten minutes walk from her home.

I had to leave Mum in that home that afternoon (I had to go home for medication) the confused and bewildered look on her face when I left will haunt me for the rest of my life .

Thanks again Jackie

 

[Ex-Member1]

Heart breaking story. Nothing like yours DoDTS but my best pal is currently in a nursing home locally and, despite the care and attention he undoubtedly receives there, he is desperately unhappy and feels isolated. I saw him again yesterday and the look in his eyes of capitulation is hard to bear and impossible to get out of your head. I am not sure what the best answer is but care is a massive topic and needs funding and re thinking.