Indonesian Drug Executions

[* ORM *]

I may be slightly controversial here but I'm in the let's get it over and done with camp. Before the knee jerks consider these points.

Unlike some other examples the full and due legal process has been fully exhausted
As travellers to many Asian countries know when you complete a landing card in countries with drug death penalties this is explicitly stated and couldn't be more clear. The statement usually says the penalty IS death, not might be
In the country where this is happening and in the Philippines, apart from relatives, there is next to no outcry. These are the laws, break them at your peril.

Both countries are politically unstable. Both are dangerous for westerners in varying degrees depending on exactly where you are. Manila for instance is dangerous, Borocay relatively safe.

Jakarta is relatively safe but large parts of Indonesian countryside are no go areas (large parts are beautiful and safe). Bali is the Newquay of SE Asia and a haven for Aussie surfers arriving in numbers. At the same time the terror threat is regularly raised to high levels. Haven't checked what it is at the moment.

Personal safety is a consideration whatever your travel plans in these countries.

Back to main topic. Thoughts please ?

 

[Mad Cyril]

The state should be above killing people.

 

[rigsby]

READY-AIM-FIRE .........(blackadder)

 

[MK Shrimper]

Will it stop the unwinnable war in drug trafficking?

No.

Legalise the lot.

 

[Bielzibubz]

If you choose to be a drug trafficker and you choose to traffic them to these areas of Asia then your choices are the things that put you in front of that firing squad or on that gurney. It's their laws. If your found and proven to have broken them then you should fully expect the punishments that go with breaking those laws.

 

[* ORM *]

And apart from a last minute stay for a Filipino and a Frenchie under separate appeal we are done. I too am not condoning the death penalty but the law is clear. Better than China where the 'trial' and execution can happen within days of arrest. That will change within 10 years. The process not the penalty.

Wooly liberalism UK style so people can come and visit and basically take the **** or anyone can commit shocking crimes and these days be out in 15-20 years. I know which of the two I prefer.

 

[mrsblue]

Drugs should be made legal,crime would decrease,jail space would decrease and the governments could make them safe and make plenty of cash.

 

[GBJ]

Legalise drugs lol.

My local pub(s) .... Average amount of people using illegal drugs, on a weekend, I'd estimate to be 25%. On a cocktail of booze & sniff, these people are capable of untold carnage & destruction. Now give 100% of people, the green light to experiment or overindulge & your carnage/destruction potential, multiplies greatly.

 

[Pubey]

Legalise drugs lol.

My local pub(s) .... Average amount of people using illegal drugs, on a weekend, I'd estimate to be 25%. On a cocktail of booze & sniff, these people are capable of untold carnage & destruction. Now give 100% of people, the green light to experiment or overindulge & your carnage/destruction potential, multiplies greatly.

So what's clear is that the illegality of drugs isn't really stopping people from doing them.

I doubt there are many people who aren't doing drugs who suddenly will if they were legalised/decriminalised (there is plenty of evidence from Portugal, Belgium, Mexico to support this), as your point proves - if you want to take drugs then it's easy.

The carnage provided by drugs is the criminality behind them, and the fact that drugs cannot be easily researched, understood and addictions treated due to being illegal. Take those barriers away and you free up resources used to by the police/justice services/prisons to incriminate drug users and dealers and instead they can be to help people who need help and deal with antisocial behaviour (whether that comes from drinking, drug taking or just being a ****).

Do the numbers stack up? Not sure, but in many developed countries there's a gradual shift toward decriminalisation/legalisation.

What's clear is that drugs aren't going to go away, and the solution IMO isn't to lock everyone up, or execute them. We need to be a bit more open minded, mannnnnn

 

[MK Shrimper]

Legalise drugs lol.

My local pub(s) .... Average amount of people using illegal drugs, on a weekend, I'd estimate to be 25%. On a cocktail of booze & sniff, these people are capable of untold carnage & destruction. Now give 100% of people, the green light to experiment or overindulge & your carnage/destruction potential, multiplies greatly.

Prohibition does not, and will never work. If people want to cause "carnage" they will regardless of what they took- I took a shed load in my 20s and mostly danced the night away or talked absolute ***** and ate a lot of Mars Bars.

 

[mrsblue]

Governments across the globe deny their people their right to take drugs if they so wish,yet the very same people can legally drink theirselves silly causing agrro in towns and cities whilst the resources of the police and hospital staff are misused either treating or arresting drunken idiots.

My view is clear make the stuff legal and overnight every dealer who remember will cut the gear with all manner of crap will be out of business,addicts will no longer have the need to commit crime as their supply would be free or dirt cheap.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Prohibition does not, and will never work. If people want to cause "carnage" they will regardless of what they took- I took a shed load in my 20s and mostly danced the night away or talked absolute ***** and ate a lot of Mars Bars.

You'd be a great poster boy for future 'Just Say No' campaigns.

 

[rigsby]

You'd be a great poster boy for future 'Just Say No' campaigns.

How about 'Just Say Yes'

 

[MK Shrimper]

You'd be a great poster boy for future 'Just Say No' campaigns.

Meh, I had some ****ing great times. :smile:


(Don't show this to MK Jnr in 15 years).

 

[Uncle Leo]

Meh, I had some ****ing great times. :smile:


(Don't show this to MK Jnr in 15 years).

 

[* ORM *]

Ha ha whether they should be legalised is another debate and I'm on the fence. The fact is the crime is punishable by death in Indonesia and Singapore. I've been to Indonesia once and Singapore plenty of times. Each time carry on case only which I even padlock in the plane

 

[Uncle Leo]

I'm not particularly comfortable with the whole 'British grandmother set for execution' narrative. It almost implies that because she is someone's nan she the rules that apply to other drug smugglers shouldn't apply to her.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

If you choose to be a drug trafficker and you choose to traffic them to these areas of Asia then your choices are the things that put you in front of that firing squad or on that gurney. It's their laws. If your found and proven to have broken them then you should fully expect the punishments that go with breaking those laws.

Yes, they should expect the punishment proscribed. Whether the punishment proscribed should be changed is another matter.

I'm not particularly comfortable with the whole 'British grandmother set for execution' narrative. It almost implies that because she is someone's nan sheBritish the rules that apply to other drug smugglers shouldn't apply to her.

Corrected for accuracy.

 

[GBJ]

So what's clear is that the illegality of drugs isn't really stopping people from doing them.

I doubt there are many people who aren't doing drugs who suddenly will if they were legalised/decriminalised (there is plenty of evidence from Portugal, Belgium, Mexico to support this), as your point proves - if you want to take drugs then it's easy.

Drugs aren't hard to get, no. But my point is, by decriminalising them, it makes them look safer. so those who haven't experimented with them, would inevitably feel easier about trying some, especially if peer pressure is present. That in itself, isn't a problem, as long as it's done in a controlled environment. Unfortunately, you rarely find a controlled environment to take recreational drugs, as your behaviour & surroundings become a potential hazard/danger.

This is as simple as it gets... Drugs change people. Simple. Each drug, affects each individual differently. But it 100% changes them, whilst in their system. I'll be tempted to exclude weed from this, but sniff, MDMA, Smack, Crack & LSD are all potential dangers. I've seen first hand, the most placid of people, toot up & turn into savages. I've seen small disagreements/accidents turn into bloodshed. I've seen people rack up debts in the blink of an eye, just because their brain is saying "more, need more". I know people who've had panic/anxiety attacks for days after, which is interspersed with depression & self-loathing.

And it's all down to a stupid chemical, which has been induced voluntarily.

 

[Firestorm]

Drugs aren't hard to get, no. But my point is, by decriminalising them, it makes them look safer. so those who haven't experimented with them, would inevitably feel easier about trying some, especially if peer pressure is present. That in itself, isn't a problem, as long as it's done in a controlled environment. Unfortunately, you rarely find a controlled environment to take recreational drugs, as your behaviour & surroundings become a potential hazard/danger.

This is as simple as it gets... Drugs change people. Simple. Each drug, affects each individual differently. But it 100% changes them, whilst in their system. I'll be tempted to exclude weed from this, but sniff, MDMA, Smack, Crack & LSD are all potential dangers. I've seen first hand, the most placid of people, toot up & turn into savages. I've seen small disagreements/accidents turn into bloodshed. I've seen people rack up debts in the blink of an eye, just because their brain is saying "more, need more". I know people who've had panic/anxiety attacks for days after, which is interspersed with depression & self-loathing.

And it's all down to a stupid chemical, which has been induced voluntarily.

In fairness GBJ I have seen those things too, brought upon by Alcohol. Which sort of shows that neither legalisation nor prohibition work to a degree.

The upside for legislation often mentioned is that if legal the drugs will be able to be produced cheaper and purer (not purity of the drug, but the lack of possibly toxic contamination) the price could then be sett by taxing it to a level which would discourage the black market as well as not being too cheap.
This would provide revenue which would assist , if not pay for, the treatment for the abusers , which is currently coming from somewhere else.

Basically , like Alcohol or fags, you cant stop them doing it , so tax them so that any cost to society of the habit, is met by the users.

Personally , I can see any reasons why all Drugs , and that include tobacco and Alcohol, cannot be treated in the same way, whether that's Illegal or legal , I am not sure, but the disparity in legislation seems wrong