Jordan pilot. It is time to end this madness.

[steveo]

We could attack ISIS with tanks and soldiers and give them a good kicking, but you will never kill the root cause of it and in 10 years time we will still be sitting here with the same issues.

Problem is these don't seem like the sort of chaps who will sit round the table and have a reasonable discussion, so by doing nothing we wont get anywhere so force is the only other option.

 

[Jam_Man]

Problem is these don't seem like the sort of chaps who will sit round the table and have a reasonable discussion, so by doing nothing we wont get anywhere so force is the only other option.

No they arent, again there is no simple solution, that doesnt mean a simple response is the right one.

Ok so we go in kill ISIS and then what, we leave in peace for ever?

We spent 10 years in Afghanistan and achieved nothing, do you think the middle east will turn into a "round the table" bunch of guys if we invade?

If we lost 1,000 troops and at the end of it extremism increases throughout the globe is that a victory?

 

[Bielzibubz]

I say again. Islamist fundamentalism like the bile that ISIL preach is an ideology and you cannot defeat that with guns and boots on the ground. Yes you can kill thousands of those that follow it. Yes you can water down the threat in the particular region where the guns and boots have been. What it won't do is make us here in the UK any safer. In fact I'd hazard a guess that it may make matters even worse by alienating even more marginalized and disillusioned Muslim radicals than we have at the moment.

There won't be an end to this conflict in my lifetime, it's generational in nature and only the non-radicalization of the next Muslims to be born will see an end to it so don't any of you go holding your breath.

What's the answer now? I honestly have no idea. I do find it hard to fathom why, what with all the special forces we have in the west at our disposal together with those among the coalition countries that we don't get more reports ISIL forces being taken out.

Is the political will there to do more? Is the international co operation there or does self interest get in the way of agreement as to what should be done?

 

[rigsby]

So you agree we should go in mob handed and smash them then? That's great.

You seem so well informed I think a change of career would do you and the world a great favour. Apparently Jeb Bush is looking for a new campaign manager.

 

[Ricey]

No they arent, again there is no simple solution, that doesnt mean a simple response is the right one.

Ok so we go in kill ISIS and then what, we leave in peace for ever?

We spent 10 years in Afghanistan and achieved nothing, do you think the middle east will turn into a "round the table" bunch of guys if we invade?

If we lost 1,000 troops and at the end of it extremism increases throughout the globe is that a victory?

Disagree with you there, when I was out there we were doing a lot of Afghan mentoring and helping them to build up their national army and police force. We have given them some decent infrastructure to combat future attacks from the Taliban. Not long after the UK pulled out of Afghan, Camp Bastion came under Tailban attack their was a 14 gun fight and the ANP and ANA came out victors. In my eyes after that happening I think we have achieved something!

 

[LCBB72]

I saw the pictures in the paper of Moaz about to be murdered , standing behind him with there guns and faces covered were the murdering filth , I hope each and every one of them burns in hell forever .

 

[Jam_Man]

Disagree with you there, when I was out there we were doing a lot of Afghan mentoring and helping them to build up their national army and police force. We have given them some decent infrastructure to combat future attacks from the Taliban. Not long after the UK pulled out of Afghan, Camp Bastion came under Tailban attack their was a 14 gun fight and the ANP and ANA came out victors. In my eyes after that happening I think we have achieved something!

Very little in the long run though, the Taliban are still there, the country has not changed fundamentally.

Was what has been achieved really worth all of the lives lost?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Disagree with you there, when I was out there we were doing a lot of Afghan mentoring and helping them to build up their national army and police force. We have given them some decent infrastructure to combat future attacks from the Taliban. Not long after the UK pulled out of Afghan, Camp Bastion came under Tailban attack their was a 14 gun fight and the ANP and ANA came out victors. In my eyes after that happening I think we have achieved something!

Based on your experience there,how long do you think it'll be before the Taliban are in control of the county again? :unsure:

 

[Ricey]

Very little in the long run though, the Taliban are still there, the country has not changed fundamentally.

Was what has been achieved really worth all of the lives lost?

No, but I'm going to say that as I know people killed in Afghan. The country has come on leaps and bounds and I saw that over the just shy of 7 months I was there. The areas where we operated were like going back in a time machine and seeing how people live 100's of years ago when I first got there. The amount of improvement and change in my time there was massive and although I didn't go to Kabul I know that it has changed massively since we first deployed out there.

Based on your experience there,how long do you think it'll be before the Taliban are in control of the county again? :unsure:

We joked that when we pulled out last year that we give it 6 months before we are back out there again. After the attack on Bastion recently and how they defended it I don't think we will be back for a long time. We have given them the right training from the nco's up to the officers for them to hold off a Tailban takeover.

 

[steveo]

You seem so well informed I think a change of career would do you and the world a great favour. Apparently Jeb Bush is looking for a new campaign manager.

So instead of a lot of smartass ********, how about coming up with an alternative or are you in the camp of lets do nothing and complain about it later?

 

[Mad Cyril]

Based on your experience there,how long do you think it'll be before the Taliban are in control of the county again? :unsure:

What's your solution to the problem then? A Guardian link will suffice.

 

[Jam_Man]

No, but I'm going to say that as I know people killed in Afghan. The country has come on leaps and bounds and I saw that over the just shy of 7 months I was there. The areas where we operated were like going back in a time machine and seeing how people live 100's of years ago when I first got there. The amount of improvement and change in my time there was massive and although I didn't go to Kabul I know that it has changed massively since we first deployed out there.



We joked that when we pulled out last year that we give it 6 months before we are back out there again. After the attack on Bastion recently and how they defended it I don't think we will be back for a long time. We have given them the right training from the nco's up to the officers for them to hold off a Tailban takeover.

Time will tell, I doubt we made a long lasting effect.

Lets say you are right though, to bring it back into the context of the thread, did invading Afgan and spend 10 years there solve the problems?

The taliban still exist, even if they arent in total control, they will still exist in 10 years time.

If we were to attack ISIS we may well give them a good spanking, but whats very likely is they run tot he hills and revert to IED and suicide attacks for the next decade.

I personally would be happy to see them attacked, but I also know that it won't resolve the issue long term and will actually increase the risk to us here at home.

 

[Ricey]

Time will tell, I doubt we made a long lasting effect.

Lets say you are right though, to bring it back into the context of the thread, did invading Afgan and spend 10 years there solve the problems?

The taliban still exist, even if they arent in total control, they will still exist in 10 years time.

If we were to attack ISIS we may well give them a good spanking, but whats very likely is they run tot he hills and revert to IED and suicide attacks for the next decade.

I personally would be happy to see them attacked, but I also know that it won't resolve the issue long term and will actually increase the risk to us here at home.

Like you say you won't be able to totally wipe out the Taliban. Look at how the Americans celebrated when Seal Team Six seiged Bin Laden's hideout in Pakistan and killed him. They were so naive to the fact that he was dead and that would be the end of the war. But anyone with a bit of sense would know that even if you take out the top boy there is always someone vying to take over. And for all accounts Bin Laden hadnt had involvement for a long time after the events of 9/11.

Exactly, that's all these groups do go in gung-ho and then when we get sent in they hide out in the hills. Send out their dickers and set up IEDs and carry out IDF on our camps. Will troops on the ground help this situation? I doubt it with our awesome air presence I think air power maybe more of an option to surpress before we decide to put boots on the ground.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What's your solution to the problem then? A Guardian link will suffice.

Try reading between the lines.I've already implied that there has to be a UN backed solution-if ground troops are to be involved,as seems necessary.

.We joked that when we pulled out last year that we give it 6 months before we are back out there again. After the attack on Bastion recently and how they defended it I don't think we will be back for a long time. We have given them the right training from the nco's up to the officers for them to hold off a Tailban takeover.

I didn't ask you when you thought British forces would be back (Never I hope).

I asked you how long you thought it would be before the Taliban are back in control.Not the same thing at all.

 

[Ricey]

Try reading between the lines.I've already implied that there has to be a UN backed solution-if ground troops are to be involved,as seems necessary.



I didn't ask you when you thought British forces would be back (Never I hope).

I asked you how long you thought it would be before the Taliban are back in control.Not the same thing at all.

Well it kind of answers itself really, if I don't think we will be back then the tailban won't be back in control.

 

[londonblue]

Try reading between the lines.I've already implied that there has to be a UN backed solution-if ground troops are to be involved,as seems necessary.

Call me a cynic, but I doubt you'll ever get a UN backed solution. Given the make up of the UN Security Council, you'll never get a consensus amongst the permanent members, who all have the right of veto.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Does anyone seriously think that thousands of troops on the ground and giving them a good 'spanking' will end the war and make us safe? Serious question to those that have put it forward as an option.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Call me a cynic, but I doubt you'll ever get a UN backed solution. Given the make up of the UN Security Council, you'll never get a consensus amongst the permanent members, who all have the right of veto.

I'm sure you're right.

 

[Jam_Man]

Like you say you won't be able to totally wipe out the Taliban. Look at how the Americans celebrated when Seal Team Six seiged Bin Laden's hideout in Pakistan and killed him. They were so naive to the fact that he was dead and that would be the end of the war. But anyone with a bit of sense would know that even if you take out the top boy there is always someone vying to take over. And for all accounts Bin Laden hadnt had involvement for a long time after the events of 9/11.

Exactly, that's all these groups do go in gung-ho and then when we get sent in they hide out in the hills. Send out their dickers and set up IEDs and carry out IDF on our camps. Will troops on the ground help this situation? I doubt it with our awesome air presence I think air power maybe more of an option to surpress before we decide to put boots on the ground.

And thats the problem, you have people like Steveo who think sending in the army ends things and then refer back to Hitler.

Its not 1930 anymore and the threats we face are completely different, conventional armies dont defeat the enemy like they did in WWII because they dont stand there and fight with armies and then surrender when beaten.

We do need to do something but its not as simple as just playing 442, I mean sending in the army to wipe them out. :smile:

That said I would like us to at least do something, question is what.

 

[londonblue]

And thats the problem, you have people like Steveo who think sending in the army ends things and then refer back to Hitler.

Its not 1930 anymore and the threats we face are completely different, conventional armies dont defeat the enemy like they did in WWII because they dont stand there and fight with armies and then surrender when beaten.

We do need to do something but its not as simple as just playing 442, I mean sending in the army to wipe them out. :smile:

That said I would like us to at least do something, question is what.

Moreover, we also laud the SOE who did such a good "guerilla job" from behind enemy lines during the 2nd World War.