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Question Legal question.

RobM

55 years as a supporter!⭐
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
9,443
Location
Essex of course!
Read carefully. This hasn't happened to me but I just wondered what the position would be.

I pull into a service station. A sign says "It is an offence to fuel your car without the means to pay" or similar. So I put £50 in. I go to pay with a £50 note - all I have on me at the time -and the staff tell me "We don't accept £50 notes".

Now - I have offered the Queen's currency i.e. legal tender and it has been refused. I offer my name and address (genuine). I cannot give the petrol back so where, legally, do I stand?
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
49,417
Location
Benfleet
No legal expert, but I would have thought unless they display that at the pumps they can't enforce it at the till. I would be surprised if it happened at a petrol station to be honest, it's more the kind of thing you get at smaller, independent types of shops. Most retailers know, or should do, how to check a note properly, and if they don't, then they should have someone they can refer to, their local bank branch if open by phone for instance.

If it happened to me and there was no sign at the pumps, I think I'd be quite happy for them to call the police as you've offered to pay with legal currency and I'm sure they'd be in the wrong.
 

MK Shrimper

Striker
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,580
They cannot refuse legal tender. Even Scottish ones, hence the word LEGAL.

Suggest you transfer £50 into pennies and pay the ***** in that.
 

Crabby Shrimper

President
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
3,747
Location
Chepstow
Read carefully. This hasn't happened to me but I just wondered what the position would be.

I pull into a service station. A sign says "It is an offence to fuel your car without the means to pay" or similar. So I put £50 in. I go to pay with a £50 note - all I have on me at the time -and the staff tell me "We don't accept £50 notes".

Now - I have offered the Queen's currency i.e. legal tender and it has been refused. I offer my name and address (genuine). I cannot give the petrol back so where, legally, do I stand?

I believe that's the key point. Had you spent £2, and tried paying with a £50 note, then I believe it's not classified as legal tender, ie can be refused as such (this may be out of date, pretty sure that used to be the law though). However, offering a £50 to pay for £50 of goods I don't see that they can have much cause for complaint.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
22,733
Location
Canvey Island
I believe that's the key point. Had you spent £2, and tried paying with a £50 note, then I believe it's not classified as legal tender, ie can be refused as such (this may be out of date, pretty sure that used to be the law though). However, offering a £50 to pay for £50 of goods I don't see that they can have much cause for complaint.

I'm not too sure about that (like you), but how can legal tender not be legal tender. Providing the note isn't a forgery the vendor should honour the value of the note and give change accordingly.

I got involved in an altercation with a bus driver at Benfleet Station a few weeks back. A school girl got on and offered her correct fare but in copper and small denomination silver. The driver refused to accept it (probably because he couldn't be arsed to count it) and told the lass to get off. I was standing behind her and told her to stay put and told the driver to issue the ticket, which with incredibly bad grace he did.
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
49,417
Location
Benfleet
I'm not too sure about that (like you), but how can legal tender not be legal tender. Providing the note isn't a forgery the vendor should honour the value of the note and give change accordingly.

I got involved in an altercation with a bus driver at Benfleet Station a few weeks back. A school girl got on and offered her correct fare but in copper and small denomination silver. The driver refused to accept it (probably because he couldn't be arsed to count it) and told the lass to get off. I was standing behind her and told her to stay put and told the driver to issue the ticket, which with incredibly bad grace he did.
Good for you Harry! They do try and bully people sometimes don't they on buses these days?
 

RobM

55 years as a supporter!⭐
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
9,443
Location
Essex of course!
I know that up to 20p in copper is legal tender - any more than that, the recipient is entitled to refuse.
 

davewebbsbrain

Webby⭐
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
23,704
Location
Eastwood
I'm not too sure about that (like you), but how can legal tender not be legal tender. Providing the note isn't a forgery the vendor should honour the value of the note and give change accordingly.

I got involved in an altercation with a bus driver at Benfleet Station a few weeks back. A school girl got on and offered her correct fare but in copper and small denomination silver. The driver refused to accept it (probably because he couldn't be arsed to count it) and told the lass to get off. I was standing behind her and told her to stay put and told the driver to issue the ticket, which with incredibly bad grace he did.

No such trouble for you Harry with that OAP bus pass :winking:
 

Dick Bate's Protege

Minister for Equality
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
1,944
Location
In a Tory Wonderland
Read carefully. This hasn't happened to me but I just wondered what the position would be.

I pull into a service station. A sign says "It is an offence to fuel your car without the means to pay" or similar. So I put £50 in. I go to pay with a £50 note - all I have on me at the time -and the staff tell me "We don't accept £50 notes".

Now - I have offered the Queen's currency i.e. legal tender and it has been refused. I offer my name and address (genuine). I cannot give the petrol back so where, legally, do I stand?

I'd probably tell the person they were welcome to take their petrol back if they preferred. Garage attendants fall into the same bracket as Librarians and Doctor's Secretaries for me; awful people. Its winding me up just thinking about it.
 

Rudi Luftwaffe

Guest
If they give you any trouble next time you go to pay for fuel make sure you are wearing a crash helmet and carrying a cucumber wrapped in a bin bag.

The staff at Sue Ryder in Rayleigh learnt the hard way not to mess with Rudi.
 

Smudger

Manager
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Manama, Bahrain
I'm not too sure about that (like you), but how can legal tender not be legal tender. Providing the note isn't a forgery the vendor should honour the value of the note and give change accordingly.

I got involved in an altercation with a bus driver at Benfleet Station a few weeks back. A school girl got on and offered her correct fare but in copper and small denomination silver. The driver refused to accept it (probably because he couldn't be arsed to count it) and told the lass to get off. I was standing behind her and told her to stay put and told the driver to issue the ticket, which with incredibly bad grace he did.

Nice one Harry - that girl will remember you doing that for her one day.
 

Hotman

reason, honour, integrity
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
5,611
Location
Not here
Read carefully. This hasn't happened to me but I just wondered what the position would be.

I pull into a service station. A sign says "It is an offence to fuel your car without the means to pay" or similar. So I put £50 in. I go to pay with a £50 note - all I have on me at the time -and the staff tell me "We don't accept £50 notes".

Now - I have offered the Queen's currency i.e. legal tender and it has been refused. I offer my name and address (genuine). I cannot give the petrol back so where, legally, do I stand?
You should be fine - I've not had a problem using a fifty apart from in a cab at 10am - and I completely acknowledge that it was ****-ish of me to expect a cab driver to have change at that time. I'd imagine its only smaller independents who havent got a checker pen where youd have problems.
 

Kent Shrimper

Mike Reid
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
6,910
Location
Sevenoaks
I'm not too sure about that (like you), but how can legal tender not be legal tender. Providing the note isn't a forgery the vendor should honour the value of the note and give change accordingly.

I got involved in an altercation with a bus driver at Benfleet Station a few weeks back. A school girl got on and offered her correct fare but in copper and small denomination silver. The driver refused to accept it (probably because he couldn't be arsed to count it) and told the lass to get off. I was standing behind her and told her to stay put and told the driver to issue the ticket, which with incredibly bad grace he did.

Love it, Go Harry Brown!!!
 

BrettieAngell

THE ROCK GOD
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
19,642
Location
Southend
I'm not too sure about that (like you), but how can legal tender not be legal tender. Providing the note isn't a forgery the vendor should honour the value of the note and give change accordingly.

I got involved in an altercation with a bus driver at Benfleet Station a few weeks back. A school girl got on and offered her correct fare but in copper and small denomination silver. The driver refused to accept it (probably because he couldn't be arsed to count it) and told the lass to get off. I was standing behind her and told her to stay put and told the driver to issue the ticket, which with incredibly bad grace he did.

Well done H! :clap:
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
38,718
Location
London
Read carefully. This hasn't happened to me but I just wondered what the position would be.

I pull into a service station. A sign says "It is an offence to fuel your car without the means to pay" or similar. So I put £50 in. I go to pay with a £50 note - all I have on me at the time -and the staff tell me "We don't accept £50 notes".

Now - I have offered the Queen's currency i.e. legal tender and it has been refused. I offer my name and address (genuine). I cannot give the petrol back so where, legally, do I stand?

Under the Theft Act 1968 a person is is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

In your hypothetical situation there's clearly no dishonesty.
 
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