Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House🦐
Cheers for that.
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Cheers for that.
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐🦐
You're quite right.Sorry.The Greens did have control until quite recently but atm it's NOC.
Meanwhile on planet Newark things aren't going well for UKIP.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/jun/02/newark-byelection-politics-live-blog
Uncle Leo
This cook is an anti-semite
Cons absolute dead certs for Newark. Backing them at around 1/8 is buying money.
Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House🦐
And even worse for the opposition who you are so confident will be leading the country come next May. Not exactly setting the political world on fire are they. Where's Beaker hiding?
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐🦐
They know the Tories are going to win.It's one of the safest Tory seats in the country.
Shouldn't UKIP be doing better there?
Uncle Leo
This cook is an anti-semite
Have to agree with Barna here; no point in Miliband wasting his time going to Newark, where Labour have about as much chance of winning as the Bus Pass Elvis party.
UKIP on the other hand should be making more of an impression there.
londonblue
Topgun Pilot
From the list of candidates:
Rodgers, Dick - Stop Commercial Banks Owning Britain's Money
I'd be interested to know what this party stands for.
Another Surrey Shrimper
Life President
It's a money thing too - I think it was stated that Cons and Ukip are spending £100k on publicity and other costs on this election. With Labour's reduced connection with unions their income has reduced and they have to target funds and a Tory safe seat isn't the best target.
Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House🦐
Free Bus Passes?
Thorpe Groyney
Open your mind
It turns out that in the Southend area, UKIP took around 16,000 of the 43,000 votes. In Rochford, it was 10,000 out of 24,000 cast. Almost 40%.
The sitting Southend and Rochford MP's, however, took around 45% in the last general election, and from a turnout of over 60% of the electorate, way about the one third turnout in these Euro elections.
I tend to think the media has built up the emergence of UKIP into something much bigger than it really is.
The sitting Southend and Rochford MP's, however, took around 45% in the last general election, and from a turnout of over 60% of the electorate, way about the one third turnout in these Euro elections.
I tend to think the media has built up the emergence of UKIP into something much bigger than it really is.
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐🦐
Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House🦐
You mean like you do you? I rarely get the last word on threads but I'll give it a go with this. For all of those who think UKIP are racist, homophobic and sexist etc, consider this.
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐🦐
I guarantee that your post won't be the last word on this thread. :winking:
londonblue
Topgun Pilot
Ahh, of course. Thanks for clarifying.
Thorpe Groyney
Open your mind
The mistake the main parties appear to be making is considering this as some sort of racist / bigotry issue and nothing else.
It's undeniable that some promiment members and donors of UKIP have made sexist, misogynistic and bigoted comments. It's also been condensed into an EU / immigration issue.
What hasn't been looked at, or at least paid little heed in the media, is the social and economic background of the UKIP voter this year. An awful lot of their support has come from senior citizens, traditional 'working class', and from unemployed, in densely populated areas that are overwhelmingly white or in forgotten rural districts.
At face value it really does look like a race issue. The reality is different. These people have seen the focus on multi-culturalism, and of economic migrants coming to parts of the UK other than theirs, seeking work and to make the most of their lives. To the UKIP voter they are seen as the biggest danger to their own economic well being. The argument is economics, not race or culture.
What Labour and Conservative have done, however, is look at getting their own vote out, to appeal to those who support them anyway to get off their backsides. When that's been done, they put just as much zest into what they see as the main battleground, the middle class vote. Middle class graduate politicians trying to grab that middle class cross on the ballot box.
As a consequence, the working class have been by-passed and alienated by what's been happening and how they've been treated. What UKIP have done so well, aided by the media, is tap into that negativity. It's not about race. Whisper it quietly, it's about class.
If Dave, Nick and Ed continue to fall into the trap on seeing things with UKIP as a racist / bigoted issue, they will continue to find that the very people who used to decide elections now decide they want none of them at all.
(only my opinion, mind).
It's undeniable that some promiment members and donors of UKIP have made sexist, misogynistic and bigoted comments. It's also been condensed into an EU / immigration issue.
What hasn't been looked at, or at least paid little heed in the media, is the social and economic background of the UKIP voter this year. An awful lot of their support has come from senior citizens, traditional 'working class', and from unemployed, in densely populated areas that are overwhelmingly white or in forgotten rural districts.
At face value it really does look like a race issue. The reality is different. These people have seen the focus on multi-culturalism, and of economic migrants coming to parts of the UK other than theirs, seeking work and to make the most of their lives. To the UKIP voter they are seen as the biggest danger to their own economic well being. The argument is economics, not race or culture.
What Labour and Conservative have done, however, is look at getting their own vote out, to appeal to those who support them anyway to get off their backsides. When that's been done, they put just as much zest into what they see as the main battleground, the middle class vote. Middle class graduate politicians trying to grab that middle class cross on the ballot box.
As a consequence, the working class have been by-passed and alienated by what's been happening and how they've been treated. What UKIP have done so well, aided by the media, is tap into that negativity. It's not about race. Whisper it quietly, it's about class.
If Dave, Nick and Ed continue to fall into the trap on seeing things with UKIP as a racist / bigoted issue, they will continue to find that the very people who used to decide elections now decide they want none of them at all.
(only my opinion, mind).
Rusty Shackleford
Banned
The BBC's Hugh Schofield analyzes Marine Le Pen and le Front National's victory in France:
'Its enemies remain unconvinced that the FN has become in any sense a normal or acceptable political force.'
"Acceptable" to whom? The FN is obviously acceptable to the French electorate, which voted for them over all other parties, which is how you win in democratic societies, and indeed is the definition of political legitimacy - or "acceptable". So it's the will of the people that is apparently not "acceptable":
'Mainstream politicians regard the FN as a classic party of the nationalist extreme, exploiting economic distress to whip up hatred of the outsider, the immigrant.'
Wait a minute. So, if I follow Mr Schofield correctly, the winners of the election are "extreme", but the losers of the election are the "mainstream"?
Of course. Everyone knows that. Everyone who matters. But in a functioning democratic society you can't keep telling the people their choice is "extreme" and not "acceptable". Because the point of a democracy is that the people's choice is accepted. As much as the election results themselves, the lofty, condescending dismissals thereof help explain how the Euro-elites got their countries in the mess they're in.
- Mark Steyn
'Its enemies remain unconvinced that the FN has become in any sense a normal or acceptable political force.'
"Acceptable" to whom? The FN is obviously acceptable to the French electorate, which voted for them over all other parties, which is how you win in democratic societies, and indeed is the definition of political legitimacy - or "acceptable". So it's the will of the people that is apparently not "acceptable":
'Mainstream politicians regard the FN as a classic party of the nationalist extreme, exploiting economic distress to whip up hatred of the outsider, the immigrant.'
Wait a minute. So, if I follow Mr Schofield correctly, the winners of the election are "extreme", but the losers of the election are the "mainstream"?
Of course. Everyone knows that. Everyone who matters. But in a functioning democratic society you can't keep telling the people their choice is "extreme" and not "acceptable". Because the point of a democracy is that the people's choice is accepted. As much as the election results themselves, the lofty, condescending dismissals thereof help explain how the Euro-elites got their countries in the mess they're in.
- Mark Steyn
Another Surrey Shrimper
Life President
Unless the FN get over 50% of the vote then they are in the minority. Extreme doesn't have to be unpopular.
Yes their popularity is democratic but it doesn't mean they suddenly become less dangerous because their stance is still divisive.
Yes their popularity is democratic but it doesn't mean they suddenly become less dangerous because their stance is still divisive.
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐🦐
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27711254
"Conservatives see off UKIP challenge to win Newark by-election."
No suprises there then.
"Nigel Farage, who had predicted a Conservative majority of 2,500 at the most, admitted that he had hoped his party would do better. He was aiming to beat the 27.8% share of the vote Ukip achieved when it came second in Eastleigh,"
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...comfortably-with-ukip-second-and-labour-third
"Conservatives see off UKIP challenge to win Newark by-election."
No suprises there then.
"Nigel Farage, who had predicted a Conservative majority of 2,500 at the most, admitted that he had hoped his party would do better. He was aiming to beat the 27.8% share of the vote Ukip achieved when it came second in Eastleigh,"
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...comfortably-with-ukip-second-and-labour-third
dloman
Manager
Interesting result, undoubtedly Farage would have expected it to be a lot closer than it was. A swing of around 15% to UKIP from CONS in a by-election for the party in power probably won;t have displeased the Tories either, especially after the UKIP showing at the Euros. Poor night once again for the LIB DEMS being pushed into sixth place, not really sure where they go from here now.
londonblue
Topgun Pilot
According to the BBC this morning, it is the 9th time in the last 15 by-elections that they have lost their deposit.
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