Music & Politics

[Napster]

The only race I know is the human race. Preconceived ideas about race lead to ignorance, fear and prejudice.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

The only race I know is the human race. Preconceived ideas about race lead to ignorance, fear and prejudice.

Which is the main reason why I would be dubious about starting it on a football site. SOME, not all people on here, would not be capable of debating something like this.

My own viewpoint is that of the Aussies, what will you contribute to enhance this country. If nothing then F R O.

The Americans are the same & we should be too. B0llocks to the EU (easier said than done!) The French help them across the Channel, because they don't want the burden either. How many millions go out of this country in child benefit? How many Christian churches do you see in Asia? How many foreign speaking countries do what we do with people who cannot/will not learn the language & translate leaflets into countless languages. :madman:

There's a few bits to discuss, but I've picked on those as they are subjects I hear mentioned quite a bit. I'm sure others will add to it too. I know there was one other subject I was going to add, but I've forgotten for now. I will add if I remember.

Enjoy!!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Why invest in schools when if you save enough money in tax you can pay for Your own child to attend the best you can afford and that way none of your hard earned goes anywhere near anyone else.

Indeed, that way appears to be the Thatcherite model - and one which has undoubtedly got us into the appalling mess we are in now.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

How many foreign speaking countries do what we do with people who cannot/will not learn the language & translate leaflets into countless languages? :madman:

It's a fair point, and it's one I struggle with... although what do we do about the fact that one element of the social division between the indigenous community and (say) the immigrant Bangladeshi community is that - for cultural reasons, largely - a sizeable proportion of first generation Bangladeshi female immigrants are kept in their houses and thus denied access to the English language.

Should we just leave them to stew in their own houses, unable to communicate with the rest of the world?

???

Matt

 

[The Big Shrimp]

It's a fair point, and it's one I struggle with... although what do we do about the fact that one element of the social division between the indigenous community and (say) the immigrant Bangladeshi community is that - for cultural reasons, largely - a sizeable proportion of first generation Bangladeshi female immigrants are kept in their houses and thus denied access to the English language.

Should we just leave them to stew in their own houses, unable to communicate with the rest of the world?

???

Matt

Yes. This is England, not Bangladesh. Does this make me racist? The PC brigade will say I am.

 

[Firestorm]

Yes. This is England, not Bangladesh. Does this make me racist? The PC brigade will say I am.

A lot of it comes down to discrimination (or the interpretation of the term)
If you are discriminating against someone because of their race then its racist...
Some local authourities feel that the best way to get all their services explained to the majority of their residents is to print multi lingual leaflets, surely thats their perogative, if they sent out both braile and tapes for the blind would people say the tapes are unessecary because people should all learn braile ?
However I don't feel that those who choose to only issue English language literature are being racist , they are not discriminating on the grounds of race, they are choosing not to communicate with anyone who can't read English regardless of their race.

There are a number of people who, imho, are looking for discrimination in everything. Just because someone does not think the same way as another does not mean that acting in one way to one is discriminationg against the other.
Deliberately avoiding doing something because of who they are, or doing something different because of their race, is to me discriminatory

I was accused of being a chauvinist by a women I held a shop door open for, My counter was that I hold doors open for everyone, I don't discriminate.

 

[Napster]

So what's wrong with thinking about a country not as our country but just a place to live in? Patriotism is all well and good, but not to the detriment where people think that non-UK people are mostly scrounging infidels. Then it becomes xenophobia.

What if, for example, out of 6 people in one Bangladeshi family, only one person works, but two are at uni. Not much contribution there. But, wait, these two children end up being leaders in their respective fields and what's more, they are contributing in a big way.

People look at issues like this in a "what's in it for me" way and from my perspective that's quite damaging. It should be in a "how can we all help each other". Helping our fellow brethren should be easy, but our fame-hungry, me-too culture has not helped this.

Christian churches in Asia - not too many, but that's more to do with the spread of Christianity over there than any Islasmism in the West.

 

[number11]

However I don't feel that those who choose to only issue English language literature are being racist , they are not discriminating on the grounds of race, they are choosing not to communicate with anyone who can't read English regardless of their race.

QUOTE]

I think the argument would be though (basing this on the Bangladeshi community as mentioned above) that those who don't speak English are more likely to be of a different religion and therefore it is in effect racism. In a similar way that banning Burka's would be only banning an item of clothing, but by it's association with a particular religion / community and argument would be that it was racist. Would a shop that has signs saying 'no hoodies' be allowed to say 'no hoodies, cycle helmets or Burka's'....even if the principal reason for the sign was to allow CCTV to capture faces of people in the shop?

I suppose the trouble is that the more this, to use the lovely phrase 'political correctness' is imposed, the more the differences between people and race and culture is exposed. There has to be give somewhere......people who come to this country accept they are in a different country with its own culture and they adhere to it, dont get leaflets printed in their own language and have to integrate themselves or remain isolated, or those within the country embrace the influx of new cultures, dont bleat about leaflets being printed in multiple language (provided there's is on there should they complain?).

 

[number11]

I was accused of being a chauvinist by a women I held a shop door open for, My counter was that I hold doors open for everyone, I don't discriminate.

I hope you firmly closed the door in the dungaree wearing carpet munchers face! ;)

 

[Firestorm]

I hope you firmly closed the door in the dungaree wearing carpet munchers face! ;)

She was more of the old school " I am going to burn my bra except when it helps me get a shag" type of feminist

 

[McNasty]

Maybe the re-emergence of a party which is left of Thatcher might help........

What about the ShrimperZone party ? An amalgum of lefties, right-wingers, psycho-nutters, nice people, racists, football hooligans and people like Dagenham Kev who you just can't put a label on.

Sure to win any election !!!! :soapbox:

Mcnasty for Minister of Mortgages and Beer.

 

[Leeboy]

if it's the same John Harris who used to write for the NME and wrote The Last Party ( about the rise & fall of Britpop ) then he's gone down in my opinion.

IMO a lot of Cameron / Brown / faceless politician's musical tastes are a poor attempt be 'hip' and 'down with the kids'

 

[Wessex]

Indeed, that way appears to be the Thatcherite model - and one which has undoubtedly got us into the appalling mess we are in now.

Would that be the Thatcherite model be the one where they supported the existence of grammar schools (which gave bright but poor children the opportunity of a very good education).

Which party was / is ideologically opposed to the idea of selective education .........Labour.
Which party was responsible for the closure of the majority of selective schools..........Labour.
Which party supports the levelling of state schools to the lowest common denominator............Labour.

Isn't it funny how many Labour politicians choose to send their kids to private schools whilst berating parents who move house to get into catchment areas for good schools...... Diane Abbot, Blair (sent his kids to a catholic school well outside his catchment area) are 2 examples

If I had the cash to pay for my kids education I would, luckily my oldest got into the local grammar so it's only the younger one that we need to worry about now.

 

[Uncle Leo]

This article is a bit of a follow up to the original one at the top of the thread...

http://music.guardian.co.uk/rock/story/0,,2266817,00.html

 

[OldBlueLady]

She was more of the old school " I am going to burn my bra except when it helps me get a shag" type of feminist

There is nothing wrong with being polite, anyone can and should hold the door open for someone else coming the other way if they arrive slightly ahead of them. It's courteous, that's all, no need to take offence so easily. Likewise, anyone should get up and offer their seat on a bus or train if someone standing is in greater need. It's simply good manners.

 

[Pubey]

Me and my friend came up with an idea for the 10% tax. Now seems a good idea to implement it. The rationale is everyone is tested once a year. The bottom 10% have to pay 10% extra tax.

As it's once a year, the incentive is there to self-improve if you find yourself in the bottom 10%, and the beauty is the really stupid people wont even realise theyre being taxed. An election-winner.

:clap:

sounds an interesting idea... probably politically acceptable when you look at the current socio-economic profile of the "average" voter!

i was actually having a quite an interesting discussion on tuesday with an eminent professor of economics at york. we were discussing climate change and we both suggested that for taxation to really be able to have a direct impact on peoples behaviour... then instead of having income tax, scrap it and instead have a "carbon tax". everything can have a carbon footprint calculated, and every person has a "carbon allowance" they can use up before it kicks in. so if you want to buy that new sports car, then you will get absolutely raped, unless you have saved up your allowance. simlarly with using chemical fertalisers, buying items with low durability, plastic bags etc etc etc.

allowances can also be traded, so it could well be a progressive scheme. it incorperates taxing behaviour/consumption, and will hopefully see a narrowing between the prices a consumer pays, and it's overall effect on society (in economics called an externality). there are already similar kind of schemes with pollution permits.

maybe i should write my PhD on it!

 

[The Big Shrimp]

It's a fair point, and it's one I struggle with... although what do we do about the fact that one element of the social division between the indigenous community and (say) the immigrant Bangladeshi community is that - for cultural reasons, largely - a sizeable proportion of first generation Bangladeshi female immigrants are kept in their houses and thus denied access to the English language.

Should we just leave them to stew in their own houses, unable to communicate with the rest of the world?

???

Matt

As my G/F quite rightly pointed out after reading this post, are we, or our Government saying its OK to allow blatant sexual discrimination to occur in this country, because its OK in their third world country & ideologies??

Can we allow this to happen, especially as we took action against the Taliban in Afganistan who were treating the women (& children) so appallingly & yet when it happens in our own country, we turn a blind eye. Double standards, but then there's no political gain to be made by taking action here, as the PC brigade take great delight in pointing out our so called deficiencies in this area.

As the saying goes, When in Rome etc! The Saudi's would not allow Roman Catholics to do the wine & bread bit, due to their ban on Alcohol. It doesn't stop them going into Kuwait or coming over here & getting p!ssed though!!