On Strike

[Lord Football]

Surprised some of our resident "right wingers" haven't picked up on this....

I am on strike tomorrow and Tuesday. I am on stike to protect my redundancy payment, which for me means HM Government want to steal £25000 of my accrued rights. More importantly, they want to make a shed load of us redundant on the cheap.

Why should you care? You should care because it is YOUR public service they want to slash. It is your schools, hospitals, roads they want to attack.

They don't have to do this. They could just employ the 25000 people they've recently let go in HMRC to collect the uncollected £42bn (yes BILLION) that HMRC admit is out there, but is not collected (its actually somewhere between £75bn and £175bn) because there are not enough staff. This doesn't include the £28bn in existing debts we can't collect.

So, come tomorrow morning, when you pass the picket line, give us a HOOT.

And for early risers, Lord Football will be live on Radio 5 at 6.10am.


As one of the architects of this dispute, if anyone wants a good old chat about why I am right and you're not...... feel free.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Surprised some of our resident "right wingers" haven't picked up on this....

I am on strike tomorrow and Tuesday. I am on stike to protect my redundancy payment, which for me means HM Government want to steal £25000 of my accrued rights. More importantly, they want to make a shed load of us redundant on the cheap.

Why should you care? You should care because it is YOUR public service they want to slash. It is your schools, hospitals, roads they want to attack.

They don't have to do this. They could just employ the 25000 people they've recently let go in HMRC to collect the uncollected £42bn (yes BILLION) that HMRC admit is out there, but is not collected (its actually somewhere between £75bn and £175bn) because there are not enough staff. This doesn't include the £28bn in existing debts we can't collect.

So, come tomorrow morning, when you pass the picket line, give us a HOOT.

And for early risers, Lord Football will be live on Radio 5 at 6.10am.


As one of the architects of this dispute, if anyone wants a good old chat about why I am right and you're not...... feel free.

Surely it doesn't take 25,000 people to go and knock on Uncle Ron's door?

ps Architect of the dispute, surely that's nothing to be proud about.

 

[osymandus]

Surprised some of our resident "right wingers" haven't picked up on this....

I am on strike tomorrow and Tuesday. I am on stike to protect my redundancy payment, which for me means HM Government want to steal £25000 of my accrued rights. More importantly, they want to make a shed load of us redundant on the cheap.

Why should you care? You should care because it is YOUR public service they want to slash. It is your schools, hospitals, roads they want to attack.

They don't have to do this. They could just employ the 25000 people they've recently let go in HMRC to collect the uncollected £42bn (yes BILLION) that HMRC admit is out there, but is not collected (its actually somewhere between £75bn and £175bn) because there are not enough staff. This doesn't include the £28bn in existing debts we can't collect.

So, come tomorrow morning, when you pass the picket line, give us a HOOT.

And for early risers, Lord Football will be live on Radio 5 at 6.10am.


As one of the architects of this dispute, if anyone wants a good old chat about why I am right and you're not...... feel free.

Lol and just after we finished talking about HMC on the michael foot debate . Though the point you rasie here i totally agree with.

MC ?

 

[Lord Football]

Surely it doesn't take 25,000 people to go and knock on Uncle Ron's door?

ps Architect of the dispute, surely that's nothing to be proud about.

I suspect even Ron doesn't owe £42bn.

Isn't it.

At least when people want to discuss it, they have the chance to do so with someone on the inside who knows what it is about, rather than just people guessing.

 

[steveo]

Didnt you make a post a while ago stating how much per person each member of staff is capable of collecting in unpaid taxes?
If thats the case why do they want to reduce the amount of staff they have?

Im not usually a big fan of strikes but this one does seem to have a decent reason but will striking make any difference?

 

[Hotman]

Not sure of the exact job cuts that you are striking about, but certainly the integration of offices, combined with a dash of common sense from the moomins who work there, should result in more productive, targeted investigations which review all aspects of tax, rather than the limited area that the officer is trained in.

Why do lefties feel the need to strike? Surely if you've got a problem either front someone, get on with it, or walk away and get another job / start your own enterprise. Rather than seeking attention and taking a sneaky day off.

 

[Ron Manager]

Surely if you've got a problem either front someone, get on with it, or walk away and get another job / start your own enterprise. Rather than seeking attention and taking a sneaky day off.

Have to admit, that's the option I took at the end of my ill-fated spell as a Civil Servant (at the Benefits Agency). I couldn't deal with the levels of bureacracy, outdated systems and antiquated working methods. So I left after less than a year to go into banking. I swapped one set of pressures for a different kind, that of targets and monitored performance but at least I had the tools to do the job so never looked back.

What I will say though is that the people I worked with where highly intelligent, highly skilled and hardworking...all for a relative pittance in salary. The perception of a civil servants life to be one of no pressure and a bit of a doss couldn't be further from the truth, in my experience anyway.

From my experience (of ten years ago now admittedly) is that a streamlining and modernisation is (or at least was) needed. That's not the fault of the people who work there though but succesive mismanagement by Governments (of both partys).

I'll follow this debate with interest.

 

[osymandus]

This is going to be very interesting indeed.

A problem with swapping jobs and vocations is normally one of lack of knowledge and peoples belief in themselves.

Also what is deemed worthy as a fitting vocation may not actually fit in within a populaces abilities or skills .

Why lefties are seen to bemoan more is they believe in the individual finding and dictating what they wish to do and their society is formed from that , not as we find the other way round.

A right wing mind generally finds these predefined ideals (royalty , deference) are more in line with their world view yet is also less likely to bring about a change and a real modernisation unless it is for their view point (increased fiscal gain).

The modernisations should be renamed contemporary perceptions, and can be as unrealistic as people believe some of ideas and actions of the unions .

Is employment the totality of a person's life ? Or has our modern work ethic contributed and responsible for the break up of society's values that we blame on our idea of the dregs of society ?

(that's why i need an editor Half of that was still in my head)

 

[Ron Manager]

Also what is deemed worthy as a fitting vocation may not actually fit in within a populaces abilities or skills . Why lefties are seen to bemoan more is they believe in the individual finding and dictating what they wish to do and their society is formed from that , not as we find the other way round. A right wing mind generally finds teh pre made structures are more in line with their world view yet is also less likely to bring about a change and a real modernisation unless it is for their view point (increased fiscal gain). The modernisations should be renamed contemporary perceptions, and can be as un reaslistic as people believe the ideas of unions .

Sorry mate - it may be because it's currently my Monday morning and I haven't woken up properly but that paragraph makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

[osymandus]

Sorry mate - it may be because it's currently my Monday morning and I haven't woken up properly but that paragraph makes no sense to me whatsoever.

That work ?

 

[Lord Football]

Didnt you make a post a while ago stating how much per person each member of staff is capable of collecting in unpaid taxes?
If thats the case why do they want to reduce the amount of staff they have?

Im not usually a big fan of strikes but this one does seem to have a decent reason but will striking make any difference?

I did Steve. They want to reduce staff because they see it as an efficiency cut. Its a belief thats been prevalent for many years that efficiency cuts must mean staff cuts.

Not sure of the exact job cuts that you are striking about, but certainly the integration of offices, combined with a dash of common sense from the moomins who work there, should result in more productive, targeted investigations which review all aspects of tax, rather than the limited area that the officer is trained in.

Why do lefties feel the need to strike? Surely if you've got a problem either front someone, get on with it, or walk away and get another job / start your own enterprise. Rather than seeking attention and taking a sneaky day off.

In 3 years HMRC has cut 25000 jobs. Its not the "moomins" who work there, its the people in Government.

Example... our contact centres failed to answer 6.3m calls last year (thats 43% of all those made), over 3 years they have failed to take 19m calls. In that time, contact centres have taken THREE additional people on. (figures are in response to a Parliamentary question).

Lefties? I am a lefty, but the people taking action over the next two days are from all walks of life. The Government and Civil Service Permanent Secretaries have only bothered attending ONE negotiation meeting, and have refused to meet the unions for months. Sadly, its a case of being on strike is now the only option we have. As for getting another job... the point you've missed completely is that it is the service that's is going to be cut. It isn't just HMRC where the cuts will be felt. DVLA (longer to get your driving test), DWP (longer for an appointment to get your benefit), Highways Agency (longer for roads to be mended) etc etc And of course the less there are of us, the less income is in the Government purse, leaving you with either higher taxes to pay for the services you get or simply not having those services provided.

 

[osymandus]

Heard it , too brief i think (did they cut you off at the end as your pointed out the alternate to the cuts was for them to actually collect the (min value) £45 Billion (possibly £130Billion) of uncollected taxes.
This strike from the sound of it simple isnt your normal issues . It looks like a political time bomb being ignored

Very well put across and point made .

 

[Holy Joe]

but will anyone notice you are on strike?

 

[Richard T]

Cut's in employment and benefits have been made in the private sector so it is only right with the state our economy that they are made in the public sector.
Why should these employed in this sector be exempt from pay freezes and cuts when there employer's are also struggling in a big way.

There should be a cap on there redundancy payments as some of the payments that have been paid to civil servants in the past have in my opinion been far to high.
I understand that 80% of all staff will still get between 2 and 3 times salary while those earning over 30K will be capped at 2 times salary.
This is still much more than the government redundancy minimum payments so strikers are purely protecting there own greedy self interest so certainly do not have my support.

 

[osymandus]

Cut's in employment and benefits have been made in the private sector so it is only right with the state our economy that they are made in the public sector.
Why should these employed in this sector be exempt from pay freezes and cuts when there employer's are also struggling in a big way.

There should be a cap on there redundancy payments as some of the payments that have been paid to civil servants in the past have in my opinion been far to high.
I understand that 80% of all staff will still get between 2 and 3 times salary while those earning over 30K will be capped at 2 times salary.
This is still much more than the government redundancy minimum payments so strikers are purely protecting there own greedy self interest so certainly do not have my support.

Im not sure its that which is really the factor , if teh reports (and i don't doubt they are of the amount of uncollected revenue , it could easierly keep these people and the 25000 who left employed .

Most peoples worry with private sector efficiency plans is they rarely take into account wider social issues out side and are inward looking.

The private sector (or parts of it) caused the finical mess , that they are now trying to amend with their efficiency plans.

 

[Holy Joe]

From the Times

"Some officials can now get redundancy payouts equal to three years’ salary or even longer if they have worked for over 30 years for the Civil Service. Under the new proposals, designed to save £500 million, these have been cut to a maximum of two years’ salary and could result in tens of thousands of pounds being knocked off workers’ compensation payments"


Sounds pretty generous to me - at my place it's a month per year of service - max 12 months. & that is obviously far more than statutory minimum.
Any comment from the other side of the coin?

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

I find it somewhat bemusing that the Government is seeking to, in effect, break a contract they freely entered into between themselves and a service that, traditionally, made up for lower pay between civil servants and the private sector with benefits such as these.

Yet, when the furore came up about bonuses being paid to banking executives, particularly with RBS, the reasoning was 'it's in our contracts'.

There is a fundemental wrongdoing on the Government's part here - ripping up legally binding contracts when it suits them. It has to be opposed.

 

[pickledseal]

I find it somewhat bemusing that the Government is seeking to, in effect, break a contract they freely entered into between themselves and a service that, traditionally, made up for lower pay between civil servants and the private sector with benefits such as these.

Yet, when the furore came up about bonuses being paid to banking executives, particularly with RBS, the reasoning was 'it's in our contracts'.

There is a fundemental wrongdoing on the Government's part here - ripping up legally binding contracts when it suits them. It has to be opposed.

This is the most worrying thing. The pension of a teacher is a big plus point for me, not sure if it would have stopped me going into the job if it wasn't as good, but if they can do this, where does it stop! You could end up with your pension being worht far less that it was supposed to be, and had you known you would have paid more into a private pension!

 

[Mad Cyril]

Does this mean we are all free to commit massive tax fraud for the next two days?

 

[chadded]

I presume there is a picket line outside HMRC today. I trust they will have done it properly- stolen a load of 'For Sale' signs and painted over them with 'Support the Strike,' whilst standing in front of a fire in an old oil drum, and shouting 'Scabs' at the people who went to work...