Payne

[mrsblue]

Thats very true and him being in the team will be causing plenty of problems for the opposition Im sure, but people wanted Payne in the team because he scores and creates goals, and he has done very little of either, thats what I want to see him doing more of.

He was meant to be the solution to our low goal rate and that's just not happened (yet)

Not criticising him, he has plenty to offer and I want him to start each game now, but I do think people are building him up far too much at the moment. Even in your original post you imply its down to his introduction that we have gone on this run, when in fact its far easier to make a case for Worrall who not only set up Paynes one goal but scored 3 goals in 4 of the games.

I wonder if Coulthirst had played 7 games and scored one goal in that time if people would be opening postitive threads for him....

This season here are the stats when Jack starts the game...played 11 won 7 drawn 3 lost 1 gf 15 ga 8,Impressive stuff.

 

[Jam_Man]

This season here are the stats when Jack starts the game...played 11 won 7 drawn 3 lost 1 gf 15 ga 8,Impressive stuff.

15 goals for, yet Payne has only scored one in 7 and no assists.

Worralls goals and assists are the ones winning the games at the moment.

Its that bias that because you like him you are keen to attribute everything good to, whereas if it was Coulthirst you would be on his case.

 

[mrsblue]

15 goals for, yet Payne has only scored one in 7 and no assists.

Worralls goals and assists are the ones winning the games at the moment.

Its that bias that because you like him you are keen to attribute everything good to, whereas if it was Coulthirst you would be on his case.

No you are wrong,

Worral has been excellent and deserves his plaudits and long may his form continue.Shaq ain't our player and never will be and he has had game after game scoring just 2 goals,he appears to bottle challenges and rarely puts in a shift IMO.How many games do you think Shaq should be given?

Just not worked out for him here.

 

[southend4ever]

At all levels you can mark quality out of a game. He is so young that as his experience and knowledge grows he will establish how to get involved in games even if he is being man marked. As we say - so what if he doesn't have a blinder so long as the team wins.

 

[chapperzUK]

No you are wrong,

Worral has been excellent and deserves his plaudits and long may his form continue.Shaq ain't our player and never will be and he has had game after game scoring just 2 goals,he appears to bottle challenges and rarely puts in a shift IMO.How many games do you think Shaq should be given?

Just not worked out for him here.

If the chance came to sign him at the end of the season, would you say no?

 

[mrsblue]

At all levels you can mark quality out of a game. He is so young that as his experience and knowledge grows he will establish how to get involved in games even if he is being man marked. As we say - so what if he doesn't have a blinder so long as the team wins.

This and this again.

Jack is still raw and learning yet when he starts our record is good very good.

 

[Jam_Man]

No you are wrong,

Worral has been excellent and deserves his plaudits and long may his form continue.Shaq ain't our player and never will be and he has had game after game scoring just 2 goals,he appears to bottle challenges and rarely puts in a shift IMO.How many games do you think Shaq should be given?

Just not worked out for him here.

Wrong about what?

Worrall has been key in the past 5 games, far more than Payne.

As for Shaq, he hasnt played and rightly so, I dont see the point in him being here personally other than as fresh legs, but the point I was making if he played the 7 games and scored one goal your reaction would be far different to Payne doing the same.

At all levels you can mark quality out of a game. He is so young that as his experience and knowledge grows he will establish how to get involved in games even if he is being man marked. As we say - so what if he doesn't have a blinder so long as the team wins.

Exactly, he is a young player learning his way, the point Ive made though is people are building him up to be more than he currently is.

He is a promising player who shows us moments of brilliance, he just needs to do it more consistently and to really grab the majority of games he plays in to deserve the accolades some are already giving him.

Winning is all that matters, but lets not raise Payne up to be the reason when its clear other players are the ones actually providing goals and assists.

Point proven:

This and this again.

Jack is still raw and learning yet when he starts our record is good very good.

Even though he has scored just one goal in 7 people are attributing our results to him.

The last 7 starts = 1 goal & 0 assists.

Out of his 5 goals, 3 of them came in games we got one point from (one being a cup game).

That isnt evidence that when he starts its him influencing the results, especially when Worrall is scoring for fun in the same period.

 

[mrsblue]

If the chance came to sign him at the end of the season, would you say no?

From games I have seen Shaq play Defo no way,I still believe Jason Williams is the superior player.

 

[mrsblue]

Wrong about what?

Worrall has been key in the past 5 games, far more than Payne.

As for Shaq, he hasnt played and rightly so, I dont see the point in him being here personally other than as fresh legs, but the point I was making if he played the 7 games and scored one goal your reaction would be far different to Payne doing the same.

I meant you are wrong about my bias toward Jack,I just like players who play the game beautifully and Payney does it in abundance.

 

[Jam_Man]

I meant you are wrong about my bias toward Jack,I just like players who play the game beautifully and Payney does it in abundance.

You are ignoring what I said about bias.

Coulthirst plays 7 and gets 1 goal and would get slated. You throw stats in every single time you criticise a striker.

Payne plays 7 and scores 1 goal and plays the game beautifully and you completely ignore the stats.

Thats bias.

 

[chapperzUK]

From games I have seen Shaq play Defo no way,I still believe Jason Williams is the superior player.

Don't want to turn this off topic, but I was wondering why you said he will never be our player, especially as his contract runs out at the end of the season. I thought Coulthirst was a winger and would rather have him than Weston. Still only 20 as well.

Back on topic, Payne has quite rightly forced his way into the first team and becoming a regular too. For him to show consistency at that age is very rare and even in some games where he get marked out and bullied a bit, he will still have that moment of magic in him that we all want to see. He will have to learn how to deal with the attention defenders give him as his reputation increased.

By no means is he a great player, but he is certainly on his way if he keeps his concentration and gives his all.

 

[mrsblue]

You are ignoring what I said about bias.

Coulthirst plays 7 and gets 1goal and gets slated. You throw stats in every single time you slate a striker.

Payne plays 7 and scores 1 goal and plays the game beautifully.

Thats bias.

Thats my opinion.

Payne has nearly scored more goals this season than Shaq and Woodrow combined !

 

[Jam_Man]

Thats my opinion.

Payne has nearly scored more goals this season than Shaq and Woodrow combined !

Indeed it is and Im just pointing out how opinions can be biased and how people can build players up.

Payne certainly has scored more, but he needs to keep delivering, you are only as good as recent form and in Paynes last 7 starts he has scored less than Coulthirst did in his last 7 (a massive 2 !)

Id rather have Payne in the side any day, all Im saying is he needs to start producing regularly before we can give him all the credit some already are.

Don't want to turn this off topic, but I was wondering why you said he will never be our player, especially as his contract runs out at the end of the season. I thought Coulthirst was a winger and would rather have him than Weston. Still only 20 as well.

Back on topic, Payne has quite rightly forced his way into the first team and becoming a regular too. For him to show consistency at that age is very rare and even in some games where he get marked out and bullied a bit, he will still have that moment of magic in him that we all want to see. He will have to learn how to deal with the attention defenders give him as his reputation increased.

By no means is he a great player, but he is certainly on his way if he keeps his concentration and gives his all.

Well said, he is a very promising talent and has had some really good games, but its still early days and he will no doubt improve.

Very much deserves his place as we all want players who can provide that spark.

 

[southend4ever]

Indeed it is and Im just pointing out how opinions can be biased.

Payne certainly has, but he needs to keep delivering, you are only as good as recent form and in Paynes last 7 starts he has scored less than Coulthirst did in his last (a massive 2 !)

Corr and Worrall scored in their last game, Messi didn't. That makes Corr and Worrall better than Messi?

 

[mrsblue]

Don't want to turn this off topic, but I was wondering why you said he will never be our player, especially as his contract runs out at the end of the season. I thought Coulthirst was a winger and would rather have him than Weston. Still only 20 as well.

Back on topic, Payne has quite rightly forced his way into the first team and becoming a regular too. For him to show consistency at that age is very rare and even in some games where he get marked out and bullied a bit, he will still have that moment of magic in him that we all want to see. He will have to learn how to deal with the attention defenders give him as his reputation increased.

By no means is he a great player, but he is certainly on his way if he keeps his concentration and gives his all.

Tottenham have him down as a forward !

For my money I can easily see Spurs recalling him as the tactics here are not for Shaq.

Jack's movement without the ball is superb but his team mates are rarely on his wavelength so the time they pass it to him JP is being smothered,This boy needs it early.

 

[Jam_Man]

Corr and Worrall scored in their last game, Messi didn't. That makes Corr and Worrall better than Messi?

On very recent form yes :smile:

Form is of course measured over a number of games, and if you look back over the last 6 our stand out player is Worrall. Id rather we didnt have any stand out players personally and would rather we had a bigger spread, hopefully Worrall will keep it up and the likes of Payne and Hurst will join in.

 

[southend4ever]

On very recent form yes :smile:

Form is of course measured over a number of games, and if you look back over the last 6 our stand out player is Worrall. Id rather we didnt have any stand out players personally and would rather we had a bigger spread, hopefully Worrall will keep it up and the likes of Payne and Hurst will join in.

No No!! "You are only as good as your last game." Corr and Worrall... Messi who?

 

[* ORM *]

Conspiracy theory No.1 Payne is being sold in Jan hence the big push to get O'toole in....

And as an extensions of that Bentley is also lined up to go in January. It is the promised money from both that has financed our player dealings so far this season

 

[Blue_Wes]

Tottenham have him down as a forward !

For my money I can easily see Spurs recalling him as the tactics here are not for Shaq.

Jack's movement without the ball is superb but his team mates are rarely on his wavelength so the time they pass it to him JP is being smothered,This boy needs it early.

Shaq has said his preferred position is out wide, not a striker.

 

[North Wales Shrimper]

Has had his contract extended to 2016