PPI Claiming vs ethics

[Davros]

two questions about this...

I personally wouldnt claim back any PPI i may or may not have suffered. Im sure there are a percentage of people out there who were genuinly mis-sold it, but for the majority, by claiming it back, you are literally adimitting to being an idiot? Do people really have so much low opinion of themselves, and poor morals where money is concerened.

Secondarily, i would imagine the same people who are making these PPI claims, which are costing the banks a small fortune, are the same people who are moaning about banks not paying back the government loans quick enough. Indeed UK banks have had to set aside at least £6bn to deal with these claims (ie 16% of the £37bn the gov pumped into the banks in the october 2008 bailout).

 

[osymandus]

Sorry Davros that's not the case at all . It was shown in the investigation that a lot of the PPI was simply hidden (sometimes very well ) in agreements that people were not aware . Also a good deal more were told they could not have the loan with out the PPI (which again was incorrect ).

Martin Lewis website gives a full run down on how and why you can claim http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/ppi-loan-insurance#ways

The banks arnt losing money as they acquired the extra funds by deception so are returning the very large amounts they made by the mis-selling . Also their holding on to the extra money given ot them and are being asked by the government why they are not giving out the loans to small businesses (re the merlin project)

 

[Firestorm]

I am not aware that I have been missold PPI in the past , as such I do not feel I have suffered any form of loss so I will be ignoring the phone calls etc.

That said, I may have been missold it so were someone to look into it would be entitled to make a claim. Should I be entitled to that claim if I am totally unaware of any "loss". What is there to compensate ?


As for the banks can afford it Osy, out of interest, once they have been nailed down on everything they make a bit of money on , will you accept the loss of the free banking, Free cash withdrawals , interest free overdrafts, branch closures etc without a murmur as they struggle to avoid further losses

 

[osymandus]

I am not aware that I have been missold PPI in the past , as such I do not feel I have suffered any form of loss so I will be ignoring the phone calls etc.

That said, I may have been missold it so were someone to look into it would be entitled to make a claim. Should I be entitled to that claim if I am totally unaware of any "loss". What is there to compensate ?


As for the banks can afford it Osy, out of interest, once they have been nailed down on everything they make a bit of money on , will you accept the loss of the free banking, Free cash withdrawals , interest free overdrafts, branch closures etc without a murmur as they struggle to avoid further losses

What you mean like Barcleys ? Its the tradition of the UK that we don;t pay for our banking services (though my account ive paid £12 for about a year now so im paying for mine)in Europe that's very odd and their happy to pay (also if you check many current accounts unless you pay min £1000 a month tend to be around £9 upwards). Depends if you believe they should provided services above and beyond holding your money (do we really need banks to offer insurance ??), its also if you believe they can genuinely justify the services they charge for (who here has been charged for letters ). It's the the fact of being charged for services its level that Banks need to justify their charges , not if we are preprepared to pay them , we can just go else where .

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

What you mean like Barcleys ? Its the tradition of the UK that we don;t pay for our banking services (though my account ive paid £12 for about a year now so im paying for mine)in Europe that's very odd and their happy to pay (also if you check many current accounts unless you pay min £1000 a month tend to be around £9 upwards). Depends if you believe they should provided services above and beyond holding your money (do we really need banks to offer insurance ??), its also if you believe they can genuinely justify the services they charge for (who here has been charged for letters ). It's the the fact of being charged for services its level that Banks need to justify their charges , not if we are preprepared to pay them , we can just go else where .

It's also tradition to burn suspected witches, but what I think you are trying to say is that customers usually have a choice of whether to go for an account in which you pay a yearly fee; an account in which you don't but other services may be more expensive; or not to use a bank at all. As you implicitly acknowledge by paying more for your account than is necessary, products vary and choice is good.

As for why banks offer insurance, I would have thought that was pretty obvious as they can aggregate risks to offer economies of scale which enables them to provide a cheaper product to their customer than their customer would otherwise get.

For my money, the real scandal here is the financial illiteracy which meant people didn't understand the products being sold to them.

 

[Firestorm]

What you mean like Barcleys ? Its the tradition of the UK that we don;t pay for our banking services (though my account ive paid £12 for about a year now so im paying for mine)in Europe that's very odd and their happy to pay (also if you check many current accounts unless you pay min £1000 a month tend to be around £9 upwards). Depends if you believe they should provided services above and beyond holding your money (do we really need banks to offer insurance ??), its also if you believe they can genuinely justify the services they charge for (who here has been charged for letters ). It's the the fact of being charged for services its level that Banks need to justify their charges , not if we are preprepared to pay them , we can just go else where .

When was it a tradition that we do not pay for our Banking ? I remember regular bank charges on my account when I first got it , I was charged for every cheque I wrote.

I think you are confusing the benefits of the banks being able to obtain income through different sources in the past 25 years with tradition

 

[Firestorm]

For my money, the real scandal here is the financial illiteracy which meant people didn't understand the products being sold to them.

To be honest Yorkie, that can apply to just about everything.

There used to be an assumption that people either knew what they were doing or found out before doing it.

30 years ago the majority of people driving a car knew how to change the oil, change a wheel etc.
As soon as you left home you were expected to know how to do simple maintainence and generally if something went wrong it was usually your own fault for not knowing about it first.
Nowadays its someone elses fault for not telling you / doing something to stop you .

 

[osymandus]

When was it a tradition that we do not pay for our Banking ? I remember regular bank charges on my account when I first got it , I was charged for every cheque I wrote.

I think you are confusing the benefits of the banks being able to obtain income through different sources in the past 25 years with tradition

WEll yes but it has become a belief it is a tradition ;). Also did you ever have ATM charges when they first came out (im guessing you were about when Reg Varney first did that :D)

 

[osymandus]

To be honest Yorkie, that can apply to just about everything.

There used to be an assumption that people either knew what they were doing or found out before doing it.

30 years ago the majority of people driving a car knew how to change the oil, change a wheel etc.
As soon as you left home you were expected to know how to do simple maintainence and generally if something went wrong it was usually your own fault for not knowing about it first.
Nowadays its someone elses fault for not telling you / doing something to stop you .

Im with YB and so are the people who investigated the charges . It's also a very big claim against power companies and their lack of clear instructions on how to swap your tariff . I agree that people should take their responsibilty of this , however if the people who run the market make it purposely difficult .

 

[Davros]

For my money, the real scandal here is the financial illiteracy which meant people didn't understand the products being sold to them.

which takes me back to my opening point about applying for a PPI claim is a bit like admitting you're stupid?

 

[Davros]

conversley thought, where do you draw the line between being forced to buy something, and merely good salesmanship. Im sure there are plenty of people also who took out PPI and have used the benefits of it when they have ran into difficulty during repayment of their loan?

 

[Firestorm]

WEll yes but it has become a belief it is a tradition ;). Also did you ever have ATM charges when they first came out (im guessing you were about when Reg Varney first did that :D)

Generally ATMs were free as long as you used the ones from your Bank, most banks used to charge customers of other banks.

Reg was 1967 it was a DACS machine, the first one we know as an ATM was 1972 and that was when they became widespread, although they were not available to all customers , I certainly did not have an ATM compatible card when I first opened my account. Altough cashing cheques was preferential as the money did not come out of the account for 3 days , particularly just before pay day where everyone "flew kites"

 

[osymandus]

Generally ATMs were free as long as you used the ones from your Bank, most banks used to charge customers of other banks.

Reg was 1967 it was a DACS machine, the first one we know as an ATM was 1972 and that was when they became widespread, although they were not available to all customers , I certainly did not have an ATM compatible card when I first opened my account. Altough cashing cheques was preferential as the money did not come out of the account for 3 days , particularly just before pay day where everyone "flew kites"

I did wonder as i working for teh family who invented Tetra pack , and they also claimed the invention of teh hole in the wall machine as well ;-).

 

[Crawliano]

To be honest, in 2002 I took out a loan to buy a car. The salesman basically wouldn't complete the agreement unless I took out PPI. Being 21 and a bit naive I agreed to it, went home told my mum and dad and they flipped, I rang the loan company and they cancelled the PPI there and then. They knew all to well what they were doing.

Secondly, a few years later when I came to buy another car, having a crap credit score I went to one of these car finance specialists. After spending an age on the phone bartering the APR down to something like 12% (the guy in the dealership couldn't believe I got it so low) they started forcing PPI on me, the salesman actually stated that "if I don't sell you insurance I don't make any money out of the loan" I reminded him that it's not a legal requirement even though he told me it was "company policy" so there you go.

I don't think it's anything to do with idiots per-se, I think it's more playing on people's fears etc.


For the record, my mate got made redundant and had PPI on a loan, they got out of covering it on some sort of technicality due to the form not being correctly filled in or something, so they were useless anyway, only thing for him was that he went back to the insurance people and asked why he was paying for something that wouldn't pay out and they refunded all the payments.

Tossers.

 

[bucket&spade.f.c]

which takes me back to my opening point about applying for a PPI claim is a bit like admitting you're stupid?

working in the industry I do I would say those two words pretty much sum it up!

To be honest, in 2002 I took out a loan to buy a car. The salesman basically wouldn't complete the agreement unless I took out PPI. Being 21 and a bit naive I agreed to it, went home told my mum and dad and they flipped, I rang the loan company and they cancelled the PPI there and then. They knew all to well what they were doing.

Secondly, a few years later when I came to buy another car, having a crap credit score I went to one of these car finance specialists. After spending an age on the phone bartering the APR down to something like 12% (the guy in the dealership couldn't believe I got it so low) they started forcing PPI on me, the salesman actually stated that "if I don't sell you insurance I don't make any money out of the loan" I reminded him that it's not a legal requirement even though he told me it was "company policy" so there you go.

I don't think it's anything to do with idiots per-se, I think it's more playing on people's fears etc.


For the record, my mate got made redundant and had PPI on a loan, they got out of covering it on some sort of technicality due to the form not being correctly filled in or something, so they were useless anyway, only thing for him was that he went back to the insurance people and asked why he was paying for something that wouldn't pay out and they refunded all the payments.

Tossers.

I never understood why more people dont just do this so much easier.

Also when I worked for RBS in New Accounts people who ticket the PPI box we would think twice about lending as they it is thought the applicant feels/could be ill or highly likey to lose there job, how times have changed

 

[osymandus]

working in the industry I do I would say those two words pretty much sum it up!



I never understood why more people dont just do this so much easier.

Also when I worked for RBS in New Accounts people who ticket the PPI box we would think twice about lending as they it is thought the applicant feels/could be ill or highly likey to lose there job, how times have changed

Sadly as already pointed out some companies insisted that you couldn't have the loan without the PPI , while others de-liberality obscured it and didn't make people aware of what rights that did have .

The difference between good salesmanship and fraud/confidence trick is legality .

 

[Beefy]

Sadly as already pointed out some companies insisted that you couldn't have the loan without the PPI , while others de-liberality obscured it and didn't make people aware of what rights that did have .

The difference between good salesmanship and fraud/confidence trick is legality .

I don't think that is actually true. Maybe some sales people will see a chance to make an easy commission and push it further than they should but I've applied for many a loan or credit card over the years and it's always pretty obvious what you're buying into with the PPI.

 

[osymandus]

I don't think that is actually true. Maybe some sales people will see a chance to make an easy commission and push it further than they should but I've applied for many a loan or credit card over the years and it's always pretty obvious what you're buying into with the PPI.

Appeared not in case's prior to 2006 as one of teh main complaints was it was used to deliberately sell the policy (Martins Money box has some details ). Its not to say everyone did but a few did.

 

[Davros]

so it turns out roughly 30% of PPI claims are bogus, with claims management companies responsible for a vast majority of them. It seems the claims culture that has seeped over from the USA is as bad, if not worse than the bank culture..

http://www.citywire.co.uk/money/ppi...s/a546000?ref=citywire-money-latest-news-list

of course, this hasnt been widely reported because the banks are an easier target, and people are of course all saints, and attempting fraud on a mass scale isnt newsworthy... unless the banks do it

 

[osymandus]

so it turns out roughly 30% of PPI claims are bogus, with claims management companies responsible for a vast majority of them. It seems the claims culture that has seeped over from the USA is as bad, if not worse than the bank culture..

http://www.citywire.co.uk/money/ppi...s/a546000?ref=citywire-money-latest-news-list

of course, this hasnt been widely reported because the banks are an easier target, and people are of course all saints, and attempting fraud on a mass scale isnt newsworthy... unless the banks do it

You mean the claims management companies that re regulated by the ministry of justice and can be fined by the finical ombudsman or even criminal charges like any other company performing fraud ?

This doesn't invalidate any claim , it just shows there are shisters ?