Publish and be damned

[MK Shrimper]

Something has been bothering me over the Charlie Hebdo cartoons that have caused to much grief of late...and why I believe in a free press and OBVIOUSLY condemn any hostile action in relation to them or any other piece of journalism/art, I have to say that some of the cartoons have gone beyond the pale - all very well printing a cartoon of Mohammed crying, but raised on all fours with his arse & genitals showing? If that's French satire, then I'm missing the joke - it's obviously out there to offend, and causing offence is simplistic and easily done.

Apparantly CH has also depicted black men as monkeys and has been accused of anti-semetism but the free thinking world has leapt behind it to show support.

And before we get into it, there is no such thing as free speech - would any British newspaper print lurid cartoons of the Royal family for example.

And again.....I condemn any hostile action and the terrorist acts completely.

Thoughts?

 

[South Bank Hank]

A difficult one that's been troubling me too for the same reasons. With free speech comes responsibility and, while I stand by Charlie Hebdo's ultimate right to offend, the outcome was (obviously talking with the benefit of hindsight) almost predictable. You are right to condemn the terrorists and the world has been forthright in doing the same as only the terrorists themselves conducted the atrocities. However, just as it was a brave statement for the CH organisation to stand uncowed by the threat of terror, it was similarly foolhardy in that it has indirectly visited death on a number of innocents who weren't a part of that stand.

 

[londonblue]

Something has been bothering me over the Charlie Hebdo cartoons that have caused to much grief of late...and why I believe in a free press and OBVIOUSLY condemn any hostile action in relation to them or any other piece of journalism/art, I have to say that some of the cartoons have gone beyond the pale - all very well printing a cartoon of Mohammed crying, but raised on all fours with his arse & genitals showing? If that's French satire, then I'm missing the joke - it's obviously out there to offend, and causing offence is simplistic and easily done.

Apparantly CH has also depicted black men as monkeys and has been accused of anti-semetism but the free thinking world has leapt behind it to show support.

And before we get into it, there is no such thing as free speech - would any British newspaper print lurid cartoons of the Royal family for example.

And again.....I condemn any hostile action and the terrorist acts completely.

Thoughts?

I guess the point of the show of support is that other peoples have just laughed it off...

 

[MK Shrimper]

I guess the point of the show of support is that other peoples have just laughed it off...

Not everyone has. I've seen moderate Muslims and other articles (written by non muslims) who have disowned the Je suis Charlie tag.

 

[Eastblack]

I understand it that CH are pretty even handed with regard to who they target, in that no one religion, faith, creed or whatever you want to call it isn't fair game. Same goes for race, colour and social standing. That is my understanding and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

That said, I do defend their right to say what they fancy, but doing so solely with the intention of provoking and offending those people targeted doesn't sit well with me. I'm not anti satire, but the morality of their actions need to be considered.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I don't speak French so I don't know too much about what they are writing but I have read that they were serialising a book which depicted a future with France under Sharia law - on the face of it that would seem like **** stirring and not fitting in with the satire that we are told is the vibe of the production.

Well done MK for bringing this up as due to recent events it would seem that looking critically at their output would be a no no.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Well done MK for bringing this up as due to recent events it would seem that looking critically at their output would be a no no.

Cheers mate, I had considered it the last few days but maybe it was still a bit raw. I expect to get shot down by certain posters, but hey ho. Fire away, lets hope we can keep it civil.

 

[Greebosan]

Agree that there is no such thing as free speech. What would the reaction be to exceptionally offensive graffiti plastered around near to a school for example? I think that there is an argument the cartoons have been designed to be as offensive as possible, however, I guess you don't have to buy the magazine if you don't want to see it - it's not overtly in the public domain. Crudeness is no substitute for wit though, and should not be lauded as such.

Of course there is no justification for violence whatsoever, but how many pub brawls have been started because someone has taken offence to someone else for reasons which may be unique to them. "You lookin' at my pint? Did you spill my bird?". Clearly the scale of these reactions cannot be compared, but people do react with violence to slights, perceived or intended. Is this ever justified?

Slightly off topic, but I believe that taking offence is almost an entirely voluntary thing which is linked to personal insecurity. For the vast majority of times, the individual makes an active choice to be offended by something and then react in a way that pleases them. Of course, this is a sweeping generalisation and there will be exceptions, nothing causes offence like a good old generalisation.

 

[RHB]

And before we get into it, there is no such thing as free speech - would any British newspaper print lurid cartoons of the Royal family for example.

And again.....I condemn any hostile action and the terrorist acts completely.

Thoughts?

Well said MK. I think you are right about the British press but back in the day Spitting Images went pretty close. How I would welcome a return of that series now.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Charlie Hebdo has mocked all religions, but only Muslims would react like this. You didn't see Christians rioting when Father Ted and Life of Brian were released.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I don't speak French so I don't know too much about what they are writing but I have read that they were serialising a book which depicted a future with France under Sharia law - on the face of it that would seem like **** stirring and not fitting in with the satire that we are told is the vibe of the production.

Well done MK for bringing this up as due to recent events it would seem that looking critically at their output would be a no no.

That sounds like Michel Houellebecq's "Submision",which has only just been published in France (and is not available in translation yet).

He's certainly got form for his anti-Islamic views.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Charlie Hebdo has mocked all religions, but only Muslims would react like this. You didn't see Christians rioting when Father Ted and Life of Brian were released.

I seem to remember LOB coming in for quite a lot of criticism on its release.No rioting though.Thank God.::winking:

 

[MK Shrimper]

Charlie Hebdo has mocked all religions, but only Muslims would react like this. You didn't see Christians rioting when Father Ted and Life of Brian were released.

Not necessarily true - for example historian D.N. Jha’s history of beef consumption in ancient India (The Myth of the Holy Cow) was withdrawn by its publishers after the author received death threats.[googled]

Recently North Korea threated to bomb cinemas if they showed The Interview.

However, my point was, where is the line between mockery/satire and outright insults?

 

[Jam_Man]

Monty Python received death threats about Life of Brian, however that was years ago and certainly in the UK we have chilled out since then. Not so sure some of the US would feel the same though.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Monty Python received death threats about Life of Brian, however that was years ago and certainly in the UK we have chilled out since then. Not so sure some of the US would feel the same though.

You say that but South Park do a pretty good job at ridiculing everyone, particularly American christians

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

 

[Firestorm]

Some people take some things very seriously and will do all manner of things to defend or avenge something they feel has been slighted.
Football fans have killed in the name of their club , many have killed in the name of their god. Others have killed because they themselves were disrespected. At what level does the line of "Enough disrespect" get drawn ?

 

[ReturnOfFF]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30790412 Some French Muslim are not using the I am Charlie then

 

[Pubey]

You know it wasn't even Voltaire who said that, right?

I think Will Self nails it, especially the bit about HL Mencken's definition of good journalism:

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/will-self-charlie-hebdo-attack-the-west-satire-france-terror-105

 

[leeblue]

Bollox to not offending people.....every race, colour, creed, religion should be scrutinised, poked fun at, challenged etc etc why should Islam be exempt.....If we start completely pandering to this kind of demand then that's the slippery slope.