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onceknownasrab

President
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,014
The club is in debt -no news there.
Some staff unpaid -no news there.
under an embargo -yawn. no news there.
Someone produces a spreadsheet showing the level of debt for RM associated businesses and all of a sudden the doom merchants have nigh on convinced me the sky is falling in.
The reality is a spreadsheet done a year ago would have made no better reading. nor the season before or the season before or the season before.... spotted a pattern?

Chin up everyone. In for a good match tomorrow against the devonian upstarts. Three points and a few cares will **** away.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
385
I see where you are coming from but there is a difference regarding now compared to the last two seasons and worryingly this could be a key difference which many alluded too yesterday. That is in 2010 The Club , much to its relief I'm sure, were handed a "get out of jail " card when Sainsbury's handed over a £5m gift. I'm sure worries weren't made so public last season as that money carried over. But at the present time it might well be the case that cash has been spent and with the likelyhood being they won't give us any more, along with the serious doubts about wheher Ron Martin will seek help from outside the tent, then it is hard to come to any conclusion which pushes away the idea of the Club being seriously in trouble and more so than in 2010. Just hope Sainsbury's not shelling out anymore for us ( likely) is their quiet, indirect way of saying " Right Ron/Blues, we've done our bit ( £5m gift) and given you ample time to really get things rollong now ypu are on your own." Also hope they are not waiting for the Club to go to the wall so they pounce on Roots Hall that way.
 

Smiffy

SZ Drinking Champion
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
16,200
Location
Vanarama National League (Loan)
The club is in debt -no news there.
Some staff unpaid -no news there.
under an embargo -yawn. no news there.
Someone produces a spreadsheet showing the level of debt for RM associated businesses and all of a sudden the doom merchants have nigh on convinced me the sky is falling in.
The reality is a spreadsheet done a year ago would have made no better reading. nor the season before or the season before or the season before.... spotted a pattern?

Chin up everyone. In for a good match tomorrow against the devonian upstarts. Three points and a few cares will **** away.


Yes, I have spotted a pattern.

We are getting further and further into debt, with no improvement in the cashflow and the same old problems keep cropping up.

How long can this go on?

And I'm sorry, but 3 points tomorrow will not make me feel any better.

Lets just continue to bury heads in the sand and hope for the best eh.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
Indeed, this is news because 2 years ago we were in court over unpaid taxes and the only reason we got out of it was the Sainsburys money.

We have been ok for 2 years because of that money and its all gone.

We are now losing money every month as we were and Sainsbury said back then they wouldnt be bailing us out again.

Thats the actual reality check, not the bury your head in the sand version....
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
385
Maybe should go on one of the other threads but I'd echo the views of many on here in saying Paul Sturrock has done wonders since his arrival. As things look rough off the pitch, potentially rougher than two years ago, He's done wonders again in keeping up players motivation levels despite being 13th. In an ideal scenario this will continue but as we all know the first few months of the 2009/10 season went relatively well then December came and bloody hell we know the rest. Has a horrible atmosphere of being deja vu all over again but without the risk of being accused of deliberate pessimissm if things deteriorate soon this time may be a little more fatal compared to back then.
 

LennySUFC

Director⭐
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
2,848
Location
Hockley
The only way this can be described is a downward spiral, with that sainsburys money acting as a barrier, but not a blockade. This was always going to happen, the money has now dried up..
Ron Martin is sinking and taking his ship with him!
 

fbm

Blue tinted optimist⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
8,737
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
So we can get ourselves all worked up and upset about it, degenerating into a self perpetuating ever decreasing circle of doom and despair, or...












what?
 

onceknownasrab

President
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,014
Indeed, this is news because 2 years ago we were in court over unpaid taxes and the only reason we got out of it was the Sainsburys money.

We have been ok for 2 years because of that money and its all gone.

We are now losing money every month as we were and Sainsbury said back then they wouldnt be bailing us out again.

Thats the actual reality check, not the bury your head in the sand version....

Oh Jam Man. If I were you I would not take a job as a warm up act. lol. Ron 'Houdini' Martin is on the case. I am not burying my head in the sand I am merely not accepting all the doom and gloom from people that know such a small percentage of what is really going on. 'Know little and say much'. Not a good motto.
 

Smiffy

SZ Drinking Champion
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
16,200
Location
Vanarama National League (Loan)
So we can get ourselves all worked up and upset about it, degenerating into a self perpetuating ever decreasing circle of doom and despair, or...












what?

Discuss perhaps what would be the best option for us going forward.

I see that 55.71% of fans on this forum (that voted) believe RM selling a share is the best way forward.

Is this a viable option?

Can this be discussed with the Chairman?
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
385
In a round about way I don't think it is driving us to despair. There are other things and more important things in life. But however in the world of football I'm sure many on here had suspicions that something like this would re-surface and it has and so as e result it is about how well we take, what could quite possibly, be our heaviest blow to our chins to date however frustrating.
 

onceknownasrab

President
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,014
Discuss perhaps what would be the best option for us going forward.

I see that 55.71% of fans on this forum (that voted) believe RM selling a share is the best way forward.

Is this a viable option?

Can this be discussed with the Chairman?

You like the rest of us would love to see a settled Blues on and off the pitch. What you have to ask is what percentage of the 55.71% that want the chairman to sell a share have based that opinion on any knowledge. Possibly the .71? Who knows what is going on behind Blues doors?

Maybe some believe RM is fiddling whilst Roots Hall burns. Some think he is a total spanner that has chewed off more than he can eat but nobody is in possession of enough facts to make an informed judgement.

A poll with the fans is too subjective. It would be like asking a room full of christians as to whether prayer works. A high percentage would say yes but they are deluded anyway.
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,210
Location
Immersed in the accounts
Discuss perhaps what would be the best option for us going forward.

I see that 55.71% of fans on this forum (that voted) believe RM selling a share is the best way forward.

Is this a viable option?

Can this be discussed with the Chairman?

Once a buyer for a share has been found and a decent proposal put together I am sure that RM would like to discuss it, but up to that point its just over half those who decided to vote on a poll on an internet site who want to talk RM about selling something un specified to no one in particular for no specifiic price
 

Smiffy

SZ Drinking Champion
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
16,200
Location
Vanarama National League (Loan)
Once a buyer for a share has been found and a decent proposal put together I am sure that RM would like to discuss it, but up to that point its just over half those who decided to vote on a poll on an internet site who want to talk RM about selling something un specified to no one in particular for no specifiic price

How are you sure he would discuss it?

How do you know that RM does not want to go it alone, in an all or nothing mentality?

Much the same as how do I know if anyone would even consider buying a share?

The point is we do not know the answer to anything and for me, that is what upsets me the most.

We are trapped. But that does not mean we have to bend over and get shafted. We should discuss how we could remove these shackles and how we could get some proper facts and answers from the club. Rather than just doing what they have done for ages and remain silent on everything.

I don't give a toss if it is someone elses business. It is our ****ing football club, our passion, our pride and perhaps our lives. That seems to have been lost on many over the last few seasons. And the reason why we know the price of everything, but the value of nothing.
 

fbm

Blue tinted optimist⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
8,737
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
Discuss perhaps what would be the best option for us going forward.

I see that 55.71% of fans on this forum (that voted) believe RM selling a share is the best way forward.

Is this a viable option?

Can this be discussed with the Chairman?


Whilst I don't disagree with your sentiments (or anyone else's for that matter) we really are in the lap of the Gods.

Whichever way you dress it up, Ron holds all the cards. We have a 22/23 man squad, plenty big enough under normal circumstances to get through a season but we have been incredibly unlucky with injuries.

My guess is that we are simply managing cashflow by not paying some staff (not good I'll admit but sometimes unavoidable in business in order to stay afloat). If by managing the cashflow in that way we can pay HMR&C on time and avoid the winding up orders, then it's a result.

If Smith and Phillips hadn't been injured so badly on Tuesday, chances are we wouldn't even know the embargo was in place. No-one could have forseen the bad run of injuries we've had. Also, the club no doubt didn't bank on Mohsni and Hall still being around and not contributing to the team.

Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. We have to bear in mind that we have been in far, far worse situations in the past and have escaped. There is only one way this club will survive in any way, shape or form and that is by going to Fossetts. Whilst it won't own the ground, the benefit there is that it presumably won't also be liable for the upkeep either. The question is then "How will the club survive at Fossetts Farm and what money will it receive?"

Well, the club will get appearance money from the FL and the FA, plus some SKY TV money, transfer fees (mainly from generating selling youth teamers which is why there has been so much emphasis on the Academy, definitely the way forward for a modern day club) and the gate receipts for the games.

That will be the clubs future income and it will have to cut it's coat accordingly.

Whilst FF may still seem a distant dream it is closer than ever, inching towards a conclusion. Ron Martin and Sainsburys both will want this to happen. Now say what you like about Ron Martin but a stupid businessman he is not. Neither is Gary Lockett or anyone else on the board. The forecasts for this must have been done and there must be shown some viability in them otherwise everyone would have pulled out by now and Sainsburys would not have bailed us out.

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in keeping this club alive unless there was light at the end of the tunnel that wasn't a train. There have been numerous opportunities for us to go into Administration and we never have.

There MUST be something good at the end of this otherwise the whole last 5 years has been a pointless exercise. That is what we have to keep faith in.

The biggest thing for us is that none of us know more than a fraction of what is actually going on. Forget the accounts, they are historic and won't have any relation to the clubs current financial cashflow. Even sources close to the club don't and won't know everything.

What will be, will be. Personally, I think it will turn out ok in the end, but then again I know as much as anyone else on here. I just choose to look at the logic and think that there is an awful lot we don't get because we don't know. It's not our business and neither is it our problem.

If we really all do want to help the club, encourage more people through the gate, buy shirts, programmes, merchandise, anything. That is what we can do and if we concentrate our efforts on that, we can actively help the club survive.
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,210
Location
Immersed in the accounts
How are you sure he would discuss it?

How do you know that RM does not want to go it alone, in an all or nothing mentality?

Much the same as how do I know if anyone would even consider buying a share?

The point is we do not know the answer to anything and for me, that is what upsets me the most.

We are trapped.

we are no more trapped than fans of most clubs, nor than we have been for years.

Unless anyone has a concrete , viable and sustainable alternative (or a bottomless pit of family money) to the chairman of any organisation there is little they can do to influence the company except to organise something that would impact on profitability an that is the last thing we need at the moment .

As for being trapped, RM probably feels more trapped than most, His company has put everything behind a prestige development in order to increase profits and reputation.
14 years later he is almost bankrupt , has lost credibility with former high end partners (Ritblat etc) not through his acumen as a property developer but due to the side business which needed to keep running tin order to complete the development and a massive recession, as well as not getting his development off the ground yet
Add errors in the appointments made to run the cash haemoraging side concern and the obvious mistakes made in the development (not buying up all of the land before going public with the plans, trying to play hardball with sellers once too often etc) and the bloke is now not in this to make a profit , he is in this to save his business.

True he has failed to stop the downhill slope we were on in the mid 90's , but we still have more chance of surviving as a football club than Martin Dawn does as a going concern
 

united we stand

Life President⭐
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
7,051
Location
Wickford
FBM- I very much agree with your post (except I wish everyone stoped saying Sainsburys 'bailed us out' it was a busisness deal where both sides win

Re the Sainsbury's money. Do we actually know that it has 'run out'. The money was being paid to us in tranches, not in one lump, that much we do know.** But I domn't know what the amouts or time period were

** I am basing this on the facts that comon sense say you don't pay the money in one go, very much like a self build mortgage, and we missed a tax payment 2 years ago by one day, whcih cost us a 5 figure sum, and we were told that this was because we were waiting for a payment from sainsburys which came in the next day
 
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