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Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
People that say Sainsbury saved us, it's not like they just gave us the money. Who would of negotiated the cash injection on seemingly favourable terms to ourselves.... Ron and his team I would assume

So because Ron Martin ran up a tax bill that almost destroyed us you give him the credit for managing to bail us out with the money that should have gone to the stadium development?

Ron's intentions have always to better us, and himself in the process, but to suggest it has been managed efficiently is absurd.

I dont blame him for the delays to the new stadium initially, the economy etc killed it. However theres no excuse for the massive tax debts we accrued, getting someone to bail us out who had a vested interest in us surviving isnt something to applaud.

Then he isnt the devil either, he has backed the manager and is clearly trying to push the football club on, thats to his credit.
 

mrsblue

Banned
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
9,419
So because Ron Martin ran up a tax bill that almost destroyed us you give him the credit for managing to bail us out with the money that should have gone to the stadium development?

Ron's intentions have always to better us, and himself in the process, but to suggest it has been managed efficiently is absurd.

I dont blame him for the delays to the new stadium initially, the economy etc killed it. However theres no excuse for the massive tax debts we accrued, getting someone to bail us out who had a vested interest in us surviving isnt something to applaud.

Then he isnt the devil either, he has backed the manager and is clearly trying to push the football club on, thats to his credit.


Ron has had more CEO's than football managers....that is an incredible stat:winking:
 

Kevin Hogg

President
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
3,059
Location
Altea, Spain
Yeah Ron has worked wonders,no doubt about it.....club debt has reached over hmmm what is it now 13 mill and rising,losing 20k each week is some feat.....in return to be fair Ron has smartened up the Hall with hmmmmmm electronic turnstiles and hmmm the centre circle lounge and hmmmmmmmmmmmm cannot think of anything else.
Hmmmm trying to think.
Let's try promotion x 3.
League 1 Champions - only time.
3 x Millennium Stadium
Beating Manchester United
First Wembley Final
That day at Wembley in Play-Off Final

....non stop optimism and promises Re a new stadium.
Far from perfect but some fabulous drama.
 

the_saafender

Director
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
2,806
I'd agree with this but also personally class Sturrock as a Southend legend too. Looking back I really didn't enjoy watching us play under Luggy but there aren't many managers who could have done better than he did. We had about 4 contracted players when he took over and 3 of those wanted out. To finish mid table in that first season with a bunch of lads from his footballing black book was a minor miracle. The following season we finished with a points total which would have achieved automatic promotion any other season.

As for Ron, I can't really comment on whether he can be trusted or anything like that as I've never had any personal dealings with him. What I have noticed is he's probably one of the most loyal chairman in the entire football league. He really does trust in his manager, something which PB has noted many times.

I tend to give our manager's longer than most on here when things are going badly but even I'd started to call for Brown's head at the start of the season. Ron was one of very few to stick with him and deserves credit for that considering where we find ourselves now.

Also generally I feel like being chairman of a debt ridden lower league football team is surely a thankless task and it's one of those jobs where it's impossible to keep all of the people happy all of the time. Yes we've had very little news on the stadium for years. But Ron tried to keep us updated in the past and then got shot down when his own deadlines came and passed.

At the end of the day, the main reason we are not already playing at Fossett's Farm is because of a lack of funds. You can talk about planning applications and council approval and the rest. But buying a house with cash is much simpler than applying for a mortgage. I firmly believe if the club did not have to borrow so much of the finances involved in the project then we'd be playing there by now. I can't blame Ron for not having enough money really and it is surprising he hasn't cut his losses by now tbh.
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,370
Yeah Ron has worked wonders,no doubt about it.....club debt has reached over hmmm what is it now 13 mill and rising,losing 20k each week is some feat.....in return to be fair Ron has smartened up the Hall with hmmmmmm electronic turnstiles and hmmm the centre circle lounge and hmmmmmmmmmmmm cannot think of anything else.

Your telling fibs again aren't you mrs.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
. I can't blame Ron for not having enough money really and it is surprising he hasn't cut his losses by now tbh.


Its not the problems caused by the recession that he should be criticised for, but the rest of what happened.

Yes the project ground to a halt from circumstances out of his control but the unpaid tax bills and relegation to league two when we were paying players, or even able to put a decent team out at times was a massive failure that sits on his shoulders. To then sack Tilson because of it was unforgiveable.

However if he does manage to get teh stadium completed and leave us in a financial stable state at the end of this then maybe some if not all of that will be worth it. I do still believe he has always done what he can to better this club despite the issues.
 

davewebbsbrain

Webby⭐
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
23,170
Location
Eastwood
If he builds the stadium it will go a long way.

The fact still remains that with him at the helm the club has almost gone bust on several occasions.

He also sacked one of the most successful managers in our history after blaming him for failure, but had not paid the players.

Without RM at the helm, we may well have gone bust and we wouldn't be having this conversation now
 

rayleigh dan

Coach⭐
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
1,567
Orient arent in administration either.

There was little difference in what has happened to Orient and us, we were just lucky enough when the brown stuff hit the fan we were in the league above and only fell into league two. When we were in league two we had already been stabilised by the cash injection from Sainsbury and that at least gave us stability for Sturrock to keep us competitive (and a sterling job he did of it).

I dont for a minute class Ron as bad as the Orient chairman though, he is clearly a loon and doesnt even have a new development to motivate whatever nonsense he has been up to there.

Good point, if we'd have been in League Two at the time the consequences could have been worse with the potential of dropping out of the league. I pretty much agree with everything you've said throughout this thread Jam_Man.

If Ron is finally successful in building the new ground, including the main stand, I'll give him credit for ultimately doing a good job. At the moment the 09/10 season still leaves a bad taste in the mouth, with how Tilson was treated especially. Time will tell I guess.
 

mrsblue

Banned
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
9,419
Hmmmm trying to think.
Let's try promotion x 3.
League 1 Champions - only time.
3 x Millennium Stadium
Beating Manchester United
First Wembley Final
That day at Wembley in Play-Off Final

....non stop optimism and promises Re a new stadium.
Far from perfect but some fabulous drama.


Yes very true.....but we also flirted with the dreaded drop into non league ....Luggy had virtually no players....Tilly was tucked up which I can only describe as planned relegation.....continued marquee signings.

swingsandroundabouts.
 

Kevin Hogg

President
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
3,059
Location
Altea, Spain
Jam Man and I do not always agree ;)
I think his observations have nailed it Re Ron.
Time will be the ultimate judgement.
 
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rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,370
We ended up in trouble because we could not compete in the Championship. Just like Yeovil a double promotion for a club without the infrastructure to survive at least 2 seasons means huge financial loses.

Without a new stadium if we do get promoted then it will be even harder to survive than last time we went up. Me personally I won't be crying if Millwall end up with that 6th place on Sunday. Another season in L1 whilst the stadium (hopefully) is being built will do us no harm at all.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
Not just that, but the fact we didnt then adjust when we were back in league one and were still paying big wages in the chase to get back to the Championship.

The reason we made losses wasnt being promoted, it was trying to get promoted the second time.

Getting promoted wouldnt lead to losses, I remember the Burton chairman earlier in the season saying how much their revenue increased, cant remember the actually figures but it was millions. Wages of course increase as well, but the extra revenue does account for it. The problems come when you are trying to compete with the bigger clubs.
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,370
Not just that, but the fact we didnt then adjust when we were back in league one and were still paying big wages in the chase to get back to the Championship.

The reason we made losses wasnt being promoted, it was trying to get promoted the second time.

Ron had no choice as to sign players in the championship you have to offer at least a 2 year deal and unlike the PL there are no parachute payments to cover a relegation.

That's why it is now the biggest jump for anyone promoted. Some people on here delude themselves and think we can just enjoy one season in the Championship with all the players on one year contracts. Don't take my word for it ask the Yeovil chairman instead.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
Contracts do have a bearing the season after but even with those contracts we shouldnt have run up 2 million pound tax bills.

We received a big fee for Eastwood on top of the extra revenue as well.

We were paying well over what we should have been for far too long, all with the intent of getting back to the championship. It was that which stretched us, not getting there in the first place.

When did Barrett get his big contract? Wasnt that the year after relegation when Col U were trying to buy him? If thats the case then a perfect example.

That seems to be the common issue with most clubs, trying to get back to where they were rather than adjusting for the level they are at.
 

Kevin Hogg

President
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
3,059
Location
Altea, Spain
But of course if any company or individual has a setback such as relegation - it is natural to strive hard to get back up again. Thus clubs invest in players.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
Bit of course if any company or individual has a setback such as relegation - it is natural to strive in hard to get back up again. Thus clubs invest in players.

indeed that's what happens, but if a club overstretches itself and lives beyond its means to reach or maintain a level above their natural level then they are playing with fire and we have seen so many clubs financially crippled by it.

Unfortunately its a vicious circle and supporters play their part in it. Get a taste of a higher division and suddenly that's the level their expectation is set at.
 

leeblue

Members⭐
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
8,550
Location
On the seafront c c csiders
While I have shown doubts about Ron's end game motives concerning the club I think we can agree ron Martins reign has been the most exciting period in the clubs history...good...bad...desperate...amazing achievements on the pitch.....dodgy off it.
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,370
Not saying Ron is blameless but don't forget at last we had been granted planning permission and thought Sainsbury's were about to start at FF. I have always thought they have been the biggest villains in this whole saga, especially as they done the same to Bristol R. By the way £2m is about what we would pay in extra wages for the Championship.

Who ever you blame I also believe Ron has learnt some good lessons and we have good structure regards the academy and wages etc which will help when, if ever, we do end up at FF.
 

Angell Delight

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
7,426
Location
Brentwood
I'd agree with this but also personally class Sturrock as a Southend legend too. Looking back I really didn't enjoy watching us play under Luggy but there aren't many managers who could have done better than he did. We had about 4 contracted players when he took over and 3 of those wanted out. To finish mid table in that first season with a bunch of lads from his footballing black book was a minor miracle. The following season we finished with a points total which would have achieved automatic promotion any other season.

This. :thumbsup:
 
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