Roots Hall racism problems?

[Shrimper in India]

I think in general we are pretty good on this front but unfortunately you do get the Stone Island morons shouting racist abuse...and over the years I've heard racist comments occasionally.

I think people need to be more assertive in clamping down on racists at games and telling these idiots its not on (although I realise this may be intimidating).

I'm bringing a black friend from South Africa to the Swans game for his first ever English footy match and I'm confident there won't be any problems...

 

[shrimperman]

south african shrimpers?!?! the new legacy!

 

[SUFCFARAWAY]

World domination is beckoning

 

[pickledseal]

incidently, i think more racism happens on the pitch between players than off it, particually at lower levels.

it is tough for Premier$hite players to get away with it with tv etc but being a RE teacher (training) the issue of racisim comes up from time to time

i'm on TP in peterborough at the moment and was disucssing it with 6th formers and they say some disgusting things are said to them on the pitch and referees rarely do anything about it.

in a similar vain, i remember someone saying fredy gets a fair bit 'traveller' abuse....

 

[Fish]

Another related question is where does racism end and banter start?

What's the difference between racist chants and singing 'Does your boyfriend know you're here?' at Brighton fans? I don't remember any controversy about homophobic chanting then?

Football clubs are about identity, and some clubs' identities are now founded in areas with very high ethnic minority representation - Bradford, Luton, Oldham, Birmingham to name a few.

Other identities are founded in other well-known facts about towns, such as Brighton being the 'gay capital' of the UK.

We always poke fun at the 'Monkeyhangers', the country bumpkins at places like Torquay (Ooooh aaaaarr, it's Ambrosiaaarr was great fun), but essentially I see it as all part of the same thing.

The difference lies in whether or not the banter is actually banter or abuse. It's dificult to tell, ut these days I think we're over-sensitive about racism to the oint where now even what is intended as banter is frowned upon.

 

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (Shepherd's Bush Shrimper @ Nov. 08 2005,12:58)]I
I think people need to be more assertive in clamping down on racists at games and telling these idiots its not on (although I realise this may be intimidating).

I totally agree although some of these guys look a bit intimidating. Peer pressure can make them see it is totally unacceptable. By the way several years ago I berated a fan for calling Lloyd Owusu the n word. I called a steward who did nothing. I still see that fan at games. We knd of "look" at each other. It's a bit weird really.

PS when I was telling my wife what happened I said this fan called Owusu a b*** b******. My 8 year old (at the time) piped up to say "No dad he said "Do the n*****". Not what I want kids to hear at a game.

However and as ever most fans behave well at games. It's always the minority who spoil it.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Nov. 08 2005,12:55)]There is also the constant use of a derogatory (although somewhat obscure) rhyming slang term as well. It is so obscure that I doubt if whoever it is aimed at would even know it was (if they heard it) but as , when it was first used it was loudly explained to all and sundry how it was "invented" , those who can hear it know exactly what is meant by it.

Not the mass racist chanting type of problem but offensive enough for those of us in earshot .

I think I know what you're referring to, Mr. C (since I often sit in your vicinity in the SU) - and it annoys me as well. It is the use by a group of lads of the word "Fergal", like it's some sort of private in-joke between them:

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;Get the Fergal&quot;</span>
&quot;Who&#39;s marking the f*cking Fergal?&#33;&quot;

etc. Initially, I thought they were referring to Thurgood - because he was still with us at the time they started using it - but the penny eventually dropped. I&#39;m fairly sure that the word being used is part of their own rhyming slang: Fergal Sharkey = ******.

Of course, it would be difficult to prove that that&#39;s what they&#39;re saying... but I&#39;ve certainly always assumed that that was what they meant - and that&#39;s &quot;jokey&quot; racism at its most pernicious and unpleasant.

The ridiculous thing is that as a football club, some of Southend United&#39;s best players have been black - Chris Powell, Stan Collymore, Ricky Otto, Richard Cadette, Andy Ansah, Keith Jones, Leo Roget, Leon Cort, Jay Smith, The Goat and Wayne Gray, to name but a few.

So these morons in the South Upper cheer on our own black players, and then think it&#39;s amusing to refer to the opposition&#39;s black players as &quot;Fergals&quot;. It is a warped logic that I have never managed to grasp... but then perhaps that&#39;s because racism has never been something that has appealed to me.

But alas, racism is still to be found in the South Upper - albeit amongst only a very few individuals. Compared to other clubs, we&#39;re not doing too badly... an afternoon in the Gwladys Street end at Goodison Park (albeit in 1993) was a real education (and a horrid one at that) in racism at British football... the use of the n-word was constant and bellowed out at full volume, and I think there was even a banana on the pitch - all aimed at Norwich&#39;s Efan Ekoku, who answered in the best way possible... by scoring 4 goals. Good for him.

Matt

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Fish @ Nov. 08 2005,13:18)]Another related question is where does racism end and banter start?

What&#39;s the difference between racist chants and singing &#39;Does your boyfriend know you&#39;re here?&#39; at Brighton fans? I don&#39;t remember any controversy about homophobic chanting then?

Football clubs are about identity, and some clubs&#39; identities are now founded in areas with very high ethnic minority representation - Bradford, Luton, Oldham, Birmingham to name a few.

Other identities are founded in other well-known facts about towns, such as Brighton being the &#39;gay capital&#39; of the UK.

We always poke fun at the &#39;Monkeyhangers&#39;, the country bumpkins at places like Torquay (Ooooh aaaaarr, it&#39;s Ambrosiaaarr was great fun), but essentially I see it as all part of the same thing.

The difference lies in whether or not the banter is actually banter or abuse. It&#39;s dificult to tell, ut these days I think we&#39;re over-sensitive about racism to the oint where now even what is intended as banter is frowned upon.

Good post Fish.
To be fair if you go to Hartlepool they take the pee out of themselves over the monkeyhanging, and their mayor was the club mascot H&#39;Angus the monkey.

Older fans will remember the verve that &quot;Elton John is a homosexual was sung&quot;

In our politically correct times this chant along with the Brighton style chants would be ruled homophobic. Banter ceases to be such when abuse becomes apparent, the use of the n word for black players etc.

There will come a time when we will have to stop calling Col******r fans names for their prediliction for sheep worrying.

 

[pickledseal]

hehe i remember playin a college hockey game last season and as i&#39;m sure most of you know cambridge is a place unlike the rest of the world in many many respects - particually in its lack of what i like to call normal people

the quote on have i got news for you summed it well for me last night about the bloke at the hunt saying it was an amazing experience to meet people of all walks of life, &quot;doctors, laywers, peers, everyone&quot;
anyway in this particualar game, my college, that is relatively normal stepped then banter up a level as &#39;tobes&#39; kept shouting to &#39;tarqs&#39; etc
they then acused us of being inherintly prejudice against the upper classe

there is a big place for banter
and i think when 1,000 people are singing a song to another 1,000 people many things can be taken light heartidly that couldn&#39;t if it was 1 on 1

 

[C&#39;mon you Blues]

indeed Matt. Owusu scored a hattrick that day when he was racially abused as he did at the away game at Brentford. Maybe he heard the comments and it gave him that vital edge. Interesting your point about the &quot;Fergal&quot; chanting. This is stuff the club need to address. A quiet &quot;if you say that again you will be ejected&quot; would suffice. Then if they do &quot;KIck them out&quot;

 

[ShrimperOT]

In the past I have rarely heard racist abuse at Southend games. However on Saturday, one of the chavs crammed into the terrace section next to me called Barnet&#39;s striker a w**. Unsurprisingly, given the number of very large black security men nearby he did not shout it, but the attitude was there.
Later on the tube a group of older fans who should no better loudly abused any asian they saw &#39;for a laugh&#33;&#39; This was all witnessed by a family of Barnet fans with very young children. When the fans got off at Liverpool Street, I felt I should have apologised on their behalf. This was the first occasion that have felt ashamed to be an SUFC fan and partly soured what should have been a very good day.

 

[hexagon_sun]

Hmmm, a lot of us appear to have recently witnessed what are supposedly rare, isolated incidents of a form that&#39;s dying out

 

[Firestorm]

Matt,

Spot on, except if one of our players is less than perfect he gets it as well.

As for on the pitch abuse, I ran a boys team for some years and we had to put up with all kinds of abuse, all equally hurtful to 10,11 year olds .from a 10 year old malaysian (who whilst playing the game of his life had the centre forward in his pocket) being called a **** b*****d. to A live wire bangladeshi lad , who found that the only way defenders felt they could stop him was to racially abuse him constantly and a Red headed lad who was called a ginger t***er almost every week.

All abuse , all unnecessary.

 

[Kris]

Quote[/b] (shrimperman @ Nov. 08 2005,12:26)]

Quote[/b] (Kris @ Nov. 08 2005,12:12)]I&#39;ve also seen a couple of attractive young oriental women at the Hall on a few occasions.

where do you sit?

South Upper. Alas, I&#39;ve only ever seen them strolling around the car park so I don&#39;t know where they sit...

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Nov. 08 2005,13:44)]Matt,

Spot on, except if one of our players is less than perfect he gets it as well.

Luckily, I&#39;ve never heard that... but why? Where&#39;s the f***ing logic in that?&#33; Ridiculous...

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

It didn&#39;t take place in a stadium but a while ago, in the wake of the New Orleans&#39; floods, someone thought it owuld be funny to post a &quot;joke&quot; describing the victims as w*gs. The post was finally removed after several hours and the poster wasn&#39;t given so much as a yellow card for it. If noone is prepared to grow a pair and tell neanderthal scum that racism is unacceptable then they&#39;re not going to stop.

 

[Desert Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ Nov. 08 2005,13:31)]Older fans will remember the verve that &quot;Elton John is a homosexual was sung&quot;

Yes but it was actually &quot;Don&#39;t sit down when Elton&#39;s arounnnnd or you&#39;ll get a penis up your arse (UP YOUR ARSE&#33;)&quot;

I can also recall widespread monkey noises (and I mean hundreds of people doing it) as recently as 1990 at Roots Hall on the North Bank. It&#39;s not part of my imagination, it happened. From that viewpoint we have come a hell of a long way thank God.....

 

[Firestorm]

I heard an article on 5 live the other week about following the kick racism out campaign the FA were considering an anti homophobic campaign. They admitted that this would we a lot harder as the dividing line between homophobic abuse and banter is a bit more blurred. They mention Brighton fans getting a lot of stick and treating much of it as banter.

Personally I think that abuse against an individual is less likely to be banter and is usually a little more venomous as opposed to the vague taunting of opposing fans. That said, if it offends someone then its offensive  full stop

 

[canveyshrimper]

I agree there is a thin dividing line that i suppose many of us have been guilty of crossing at one time or another.

I remember the visits of northern teams during the Thatcher years in the 80&#39;s and the chants of &quot;We&#39;ve got more jobs than you&quot; or people waving wallets to bait them and following the Harry Enfield charachter Loadsamoney.

With the benefit of hindsight probably offensive.

 

[Fish]

No worse than &#39;what&#39;s it like to have a seat&#39; we sang at Col U in August.