Roots Hall racism problems?

[C'mon you Blues]

I can't recall any of the "poiitically correct brigade" whoever they are saying you shouldn't behave passionately or that banter is wrong. The man on the Clapham Omnibus will tell you to call a black player the n word is wrong. To then dress it up with a euphemism is also wrong. It is a minority problem but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and doesn't have to be addressed. I for one will probably join in with the first sheep shagging chant and laugh if the Swansea fans start talking about wannabe Cockney's and stilettos. The 2 situations are not the same.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,10:32)]As for Matt's posts, do you honestly think that use of the term Fergal is as offensive as calling somebody a w*g, n*gger or black b*stard? It's not good but IMHO it's not as offensive as any of the above. Although I recognise that, not being black, I'm not in a position to make that judgement.

Of course it is.  What is a word but (a) a collection of letters put together in a sort of random fashion; and (b) the meaning we ascribe to it.

In those circumstances, "Fergal" is every bit as offensive as any of the other words you mention.

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,10:32)]What I find offensive is the sanctimonious, self righteous, PC brigade's endlesss pontificating about how we should all behave and what is and isn't acceptable banter. They want to change everything to fit their own warped idea of the world. They hate football precisely because it's a bastion of white, male, working-class, anglo-saxon culture. By that I mean tribalism, patriotism, drinking, swearing, banter, p%&s-taking and it involves a sense of belonging. Note that racism isn't part of this as I'd like to think that we, as a nation, are generally tolerant of other creeds & cultures.

Just to be clear, I totally agree with you on the above.  I hurl abuse with the best of them (despite being one of these abhorrent middle class types).  Perish the day that we can't take the p*ss out of a Scouser for nicking hubcabs, a Welshman for shagging sheep or an Essex-boy for being clad in Burberry.  As Brits, we all share the common tradition of self-deprecating and gently derogatory humour... banter is part of our culture, and if anything the so-called PC brigade are discriminating against us by denying us the enjoyment of that part of our culture.

But racism is a totally different kettle of fish.  I don't care if we've come a long way since the 70s.  When our footballing heroes are Chris Powell and Stan Collymore, it must inevitably follow that one racist comment is one too many.

End of lecture / rant.

Matt

 

[Desert Shrimper]

As usual, any topic involving a discussion of racism always boils down to people being called politically correct and/or courduroy trouser wearing tw&ts just for stating the obvious really - that racism is disgustingly ignorant and should hold no place at a football match. Nobody was talking about gingerism, ageism, sexism or sheep shagging banter just racism and to try and smokescreen the original topic by making the original posters seem like nit-picking over-sensitive softies better suited to watching netball is out of order.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 09 2005,11:09)]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,10:32)]As for Matt's posts, do you honestly think that use of the term Fergal is as offensive as calling somebody a w*g, n*gger or black b*stard? It's not good but IMHO it's not as offensive as any of the above. Although I recognise that, not being black, I'm not in a position to make that judgement.

Of course it is.  What is a word but (a) a collection of letters put together in a sort of random fashion; and (b) the meaning we ascribe to it.

In those circumstances, "Fergal" is every bit as offensive as any of the other words you mention.

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,10:32)]What I find offensive is the sanctimonious, self righteous, PC brigade's endlesss pontificating about how we should all behave and what is and isn't acceptable banter. They want to change everything to fit their own warped idea of the world. They hate football precisely because it's a bastion of white, male, working-class, anglo-saxon culture. By that I mean tribalism, patriotism, drinking, swearing, banter, p%&s-taking and it involves a sense of belonging. Note that racism isn't part of this as I'd like to think that we, as a nation, are generally tolerant of other creeds & cultures.

Just to be clear, I totally agree with you on the above.  I hurl abuse with the best of them (despite being one of these abhorrent middle class types).  Perish the day that we can't take the p*ss out of a Scouser for nicking hubcabs, a Welshman for shagging sheep or an Essex-boy for being clad in Burberry.  As Brits, we all share the common tradition of self-deprecating and gently derogatory humour... banter is part of our culture, and if anything the so-called PC brigade are discriminating against us by denying us the enjoyment of that part of our culture.

But racism is a totally different kettle of fish.  I don't care if we've come a long way since the 70s.  When our footballing heroes are Chris Powell and Stan Collymore, it must inevitably follow that one racist comment is one too many.

End of lecture / rant.

Matt

Good post Matt, and well said.
The major thing about our humour which most other nationalities don't get is our ability to laugh in the face of adversity and also to take the p%&s out of ourselves and situations and not take ourselves too seriously.

Unfortunately the bands of frosty faced humourless tw&ts that infest our government, town halls and the job pages of the Grauniad want to eradicate this form of Britishness for what they term as inclusiveness and multiculturism.

If such luminaries as Trevor Phillips are saying that multiculturism does not and cannot work, why don't these other half baked idiots listen.

The major tenet and thread that runs through our country and lives for centuries is our tolerance. These people with their patronising reference to "ethnic minorities" and their lip trembling, hand wringing insincerity do more damage to race relations than even the maniacal mad dog extremists of the right.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 09 2005,11:09)]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,10:32)]As for Matt's posts, do you honestly think that use of the term Fergal is as offensive as calling somebody a w*g, n*gger or black b*stard? It's not good but IMHO it's not as offensive as any of the above. Although I recognise that, not being black, I'm not in a position to make that judgement.

Of course it is.  What is a word but (a) a collection of letters put together in a sort of random fashion; and (b) the meaning we ascribe to it.

In those circumstances, "Fergal" is every bit as offensive as any of the other words you mention.

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,10:32)]What I find offensive is the sanctimonious, self righteous, PC brigade's endlesss pontificating about how we should all behave and what is and isn't acceptable banter. They want to change everything to fit their own warped idea of the world. They hate football precisely because it's a bastion of white, male, working-class, anglo-saxon culture. By that I mean tribalism, patriotism, drinking, swearing, banter, p%&s-taking and it involves a sense of belonging. Note that racism isn't part of this as I'd like to think that we, as a nation, are generally tolerant of other creeds & cultures.

Just to be clear, I totally agree with you on the above.  I hurl abuse with the best of them (despite being one of these abhorrent middle class types).  Perish the day that we can't take the p*ss out of a Scouser for nicking hubcabs, a Welshman for shagging sheep or an Essex-boy for being clad in Burberry.  As Brits, we all share the common tradition of self-deprecating and gently derogatory humour... banter is part of our culture, and if anything the so-called PC brigade are discriminating against us by denying us the enjoyment of that part of our culture.

But racism is a totally different kettle of fish.  I don't care if we've come a long way since the 70s.  When our footballing heroes are Chris Powell and Stan Collymore, it must inevitably follow that one racist comment is one too many.

End of lecture / rant.

Matt

I just want to clarify that at no point am I condoning racism, I just think that at a certain point the line blurs between highly offensive and derogatory insults and mildly offensive slang.

Neither is acceptable, IMHO, but one is clearly more serious than the other.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (The Bloke In The Pram Shop @ Nov. 09 2005,11:13)]As usual, any topic involving a discussion of racism always boils down to people being called politically correct and/or courduroy trouser wearing tw&ts just for stating the obvious really - that racism is disgustingly ignorant and should hold no place at a football match. Nobody was talking about gingerism, ageism, sexism or sheep shagging banter just racism and to try and smokescreen the original topic by making the original posters seem like nit-picking over-sensitive softies better suited to watching netball is out of order.

B0ll0cks...! I'm not trying to smokescreen anything. I'm no apologist for racists and my post clearly stated that it's out of order and offensive.

Truth is that there do seem to be some "nit-picking over-sensitive softies better suited to watching netball" on here

See below for a quote from earlier in this thread that clearly widens the argument from an issue of colour to one of perception of prejudice, whether that be gingerism, sexism, fatism etc.

"Racism in football is not just about what you hear on the terraces or tension seen between individuals, it is about any form of barrier from the game that people encounter or perceive in either playing or spectating."

 

[Fish]

Quote[/b] (swanseashrimper @ Nov. 08 2005,20:38)]well, I am currently only able to get to one game a season, and I have to say that a large proportion of the game is taken up with racist chanting.

if you're all serious about kicking racism out of the Hall, can I expect to hear from Swans fans after saturday about the non racist abuse during the game?

Just because they're (predominantly) white, doesnt mean it's not racism.

Oh, and yes, I do realise the difference between abuse and banter. I'm not being wholly serious

Rest assured we can abuse them on grounds of being Welsh

 

[Fish]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,11:40)]

Quote[/b] (The Bloke In The Pram Shop @ Nov. 09 2005,11:13)]As usual, any topic involving a discussion of racism always boils down to people being called politically correct and/or courduroy trouser wearing tw&ts just for stating the obvious really - that racism is disgustingly ignorant and should hold no place at a football match. Nobody was talking about gingerism, ageism, sexism or sheep shagging banter just racism and to try and smokescreen the original topic by making the original posters seem like nit-picking over-sensitive softies better suited to watching netball is out of order.

B0ll0cks...! I'm not trying to smokescreen anything. I'm no apologist for racists and my post clearly stated that it's out of order and offensive.

Truth is that there do seem to be some "nit-picking over-sensitive softies better suited to watching netball" on here

See below for a quote from earlier in this thread that clearly widens the argument from an issue of colour to one of perception of prejudice, whether that be gingerism, sexism, fatism etc.

"Racism in football is not just about what you hear on the terraces or tension seen between individuals, it is about any form of barrier from the game that people encounter or perceive in either playing or spectating."

Speaking as the person who started the thread, the origin was 'I can't think of seeing many (if any) non-white Southend fans. It just struck me as strange and thought it'd be interesting to hear from some cos I'm sure I was wrong.

I also said I don't remember any racism problems from Southend fans. Some people disagree, others don't.

Don't see any nit-picking PC crap in there, do you? Your post illustrates the point others have made though. What's inoffensive and justified for you may offend others. You p%&sed me off by making an assumption about me then slagging me off for it. Get your facts right, son.

It's the difference I mentioned between banter and abuse. Now go and learn some decent Welsh banter for saturday cos we don't want to let the Swans off lightly! If you want to abuse them too, that's up to you, but make sure it's YOU who meets them outside the North Bank after the game...

Ahem, I won't be there because I play hockey during the winter

 

[Desert Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,11:40)]B0ll0cks...! I'm not trying to smokescreen anything. I'm no apologist for racists and my post clearly stated that it's out of order and offensive.

Truth is that there do seem to be some "nit-picking over-sensitive softies better suited to watching netball" on here

See below for a quote from earlier in this thread that clearly widens the argument from an issue of colour to one of perception of prejudice, whether that be gingerism, sexism, fatism etc.

"Racism in football is not just about what you hear on the terraces or tension seen between individuals, it is about any form of barrier from the game that people encounter or perceive in either playing or spectating."

...who said my post was aimed at you? You can shove your b******s straight back up your arse for all I care.

My point was that for the most part this thread was about how much things have generally improved but as with anything, there are always a few idiots with peas for brains who will persist. I would guess that it's the same up and down the country and that we are no different from your average football league club in that respect. It appears though that every thread on here which touches upon racism gets the same response with people lining up to call people politically correct t%$&*rs etc just for being anti-racist. It seems to happen every other week. I didn't include your post in that bracket for what it's worth.

Maybe it's just too touchy a subject for people to discuss at all, although I have no idea why - surely it's something we can all agree on?

 

[Firestorm]

I think the 3000M Steeplechase is crap

does that make me a racist

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (The Bloke In The Pram Shop @ Nov. 09 2005,14:02)]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 09 2005,11:40)]B0ll0cks...! I'm not trying to smokescreen anything. I'm no apologist for racists and my post clearly stated that it's out of order and offensive.

Truth is that there do seem to be some "nit-picking over-sensitive softies better suited to watching netball" on here

See below for a quote from earlier in this thread that clearly widens the argument from an issue of colour to one of perception of prejudice, whether that be gingerism, sexism, fatism etc.

"Racism in football is not just about what you hear on the terraces or tension seen between individuals, it is about any form of barrier from the game that people encounter or perceive in either playing or spectating."

...who said my post was aimed at you? You can shove your b******s straight back up your arse for all I care.

My point was that for the most part this thread was about how much things have generally improved but as with anything, there are always a few idiots with peas for brains who will persist. I would guess that it's the same up and down the country and that we are no different from your average football league club in that respect. It appears though that every thread on here which touches upon racism gets the same response with people lining up to call people politically correct t%$&*rs etc just for being anti-racist. It seems to happen every other week. I didn't include your post in that bracket for what it's worth.

Maybe it's just too touchy a subject for people to discuss at all, although I have no idea why - surely it's something we can all agree on?

Apologies if my post was OTT no offence intended but I had the bit between my teeth at the time of posting

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Nov. 09 2005,14:10)]I think the 3000M Steeplechase is crap

does that make me a racist

No only steeplechaseist.

 

[Its Only A Game]

i've just read this thread from start to end in one go and have seen some justified comments and also some rubbish.

But can someone please tell me.......

If i make sheep noises at the swansea players on saturday, am i being racist?

 

[Firestorm]

No you will just be being sheepish

however I reckon ewe will be baang out of order

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Nov. 09 2005,15:08)]No you will just be being sheepish

however I reckon ewe will be baang out of order

Or I'll never find another Ewe.

 

[Guest]

I just went to the Baarbers

 

[J]

Is this thread ever going to die?
It is so pointless... you are all trying to get the last word in and are acting like children. There is a huge problem in this country when it comes to race and religion, and it seeps into our beloved game of football from time to time.. you just have to deal with it..

 

[Guest]

I agree. Last word?

 

[* ORM *]

Quote[/b] (shrimp_on_the_wing2003 @ Nov. 09 2005,17:13)]I agree. Last word?

Nope, that is mine thanks.

 

[Guest]

Are you sure?