Safe standing

[Uncle Leo]

Looks like it's back on the agenda:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26079503

Good news I say. However, the Hillsborough Family Support Group remain implacably opposed, which does make the debate a little delicate as even though the proposed rail seating is a far cry from the terraces of the past, no-one really wants to get in to an argument with those families for fear of coming across as insensitive.

 

[Ricey]

Looks like it's back on the agenda:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26079503

Good news I say. However, the Hillsborough Family Support Group remain implacably opposed, which does make the debate a little delicate as even though the proposed rail seating is a far cry from the terraces of the past, no-one really wants to get in to an argument with those families for fear of coming across as insensitive.

And that will always be the stumbling block. They need to just go ahead with it, that was a terrible terrible disaster but one that will never happen again. Things like that bring in new legislation and measures to prevent incidents like that ever happening again. Like in F1 after Senna and Ratzenberger were killed the amount of safety features brought into the sport because if them has prevented any further deaths in F1.

 

[leeblue]

The question for me is simple, do enough people actually want to stand at matches. For example we already tried to get the support back into the north bank (which is effectively standing anyway) and apart from a couple of hundred peeps the uptake is pretty poor. I often relocate to the north but too few do IMO. An entire generation has been and gone in terms of 'standing on the terraces' its just lost on many supporters nowadays. I consider myself lucky to have that terrace experience from the early 80s onwards and I know there have been plenty of times we have had standing at away games etc it is just nowhere near the same atmosphere/feel/togetherness (although pompey away this season had that old skool feel about it) check out the goal benji scored at bury away, ignore the football and concentrate on the bedlam in the terrace behind the goal....thats being on the terraces

 

[OldBlueLady]

Saw the "rail seat" shown on the BBC breakfast news this morning, I think it works well for standing, my concern is the seat looks as if you'd practically be sat with your knees under your chin!

Every Prem game you watch there are hoards of people standing and these kind of seats would definitely be better.

 

[Jam_Man]

Looks like it's back on the agenda:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26079503

Good news I say. However, the Hillsborough Family Support Group remain implacably opposed, which does make the debate a little delicate as even though the proposed rail seating is a far cry from the terraces of the past, no-one really wants to get in to an argument with those families for fear of coming across as insensitive.

Whilst I have every sympathy with them they are completely blinkered with this.

This is not a return to massive open terraces, everyone still has a ticket for a particular "seat" and the chance of overcrowding and surges are not there like they used to be and no more so than a seated area.

The question for me is simple, do enough people actually want to stand at matches. For example we already tried to get the support back into the north bank (which is effectively standing anyway) and apart from a couple of hundred peeps the uptake is pretty poor. I often relocate to the north but too few do IMO. An entire generation has been and gone in terms of 'standing on the terraces' its just lost on many supporters nowadays. I consider myself lucky to have that terrace experience from the early 80s onwards and I know there have been plenty of times we have had standing at away games etc it is just nowhere near the same atmosphere/feel/togetherness (although pompey away this season had that old skool feel about it) check out the goal benji scored at bury away, ignore the football and concentrate on the bedlam in the terrace behind the goal....thats being on the terraces

I do wonder if some people think safe standing will be a chance to go back to that bedlam.

That kind of terracing is gone, they will never allow that again. However Im sure plenty of people still would like a standing section, its not for me I like a bit of comfort (well what comfort you can get from a hard wooden seat with no legroom!), but as you can see in the blue voice section some would want it, and a limited standing area would cater for them.

 

[Its Only A Game]

Being 6ft 4", sitting at some grounds is nigh on impossible. Ipswich, Leeds, Luton & the back row at Northampton spring to mind.

I'd be all for my own little personal standing area.

 

[Pubey]

Being 6ft 4", sitting at some grounds is nigh on impossible. Ipswich, Leeds, Luton & the back row at Northampton spring to mind.

I'd be all for my own little personal standing area.

The seated area at Accrington is by far the worst. Old Trafford is bad too.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Whilst I have every sympathy with them they are completely blinkered with this.

Have to agree. While they're obviously looking to goad a little, I thought the MUFC Fanzine Red Issue were right this week when they questioned how eager Liverpool are for other clubs to help them fight for justice (and rightly so), but go missing when their help is needed to push through a common cause.

 

[The General]

This really does seem to be gathering pace this week! Good news and im all for it!

 

[Uncle Leo]

Whilst I have every sympathy with them they are completely blinkered with this.

This is not a return to massive open terraces, everyone still has a ticket for a particular "seat" and the chance of overcrowding and surges are not there like they used to be and no more so than a seated area.




I do wonder if some people think safe standing will be a chance to go back to that bedlam.

Agree totally. Margaret Aspinall from the HFSG visited Ashton Gate to see a demo of the rail seats and was still opposed to them. They will continue to use the guilt card here in the face of all sensible evidence.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Agree totally. Margaret Aspinall from the HFSG visited Ashton Gate to see a demo of the rail seats and was still opposed to them. They will continue to use the guilt card here in the face of all sensible evidence.

"Always the victims,it's never your fault". Well, if safe standing doesn't get through then that may well be :thumbdown: Big mistake here, they'll end up losing the goodwill of hundred of soccer fans if they continue opposing it. What will happen then? Will crowds at Prem games (in particular) be made to sit? I can see those in the Kop doing so, can't you?!

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'm also up for unsafe standing - no shoes, blindfolds and release a barrel full of hedgehogs.

 

[Jam_Man]

Agree totally. Margaret Aspinall from the HFSG visited Ashton Gate to see a demo of the rail seats and was still opposed to them. They will continue to use the guilt card here in the face of all sensible evidence.

She clearly lacks all common sense and as I say blinkered by grief and some misguided sense to have to campaign for anything against what she perceives (incorrectly) to be something to cause another Hillsborough.

We all know that Hillsborough was caused by bad organisation, bad policing, bad crowd control and fences.

The new areas will be ticketed so that only a set amount of people can go in a certain area via certain turnstiles, every single row will have a bar to stop surging, there will be no fence at the bottom.

I bet they will be safer than unallocated seating in the north bank where you could already get more people "walk across" than there are seats and the crazy hoard in there can at least surge forward (slowly stepping over the seats).

Whilst I feel for her loss she has to accept that opposing this is not fighting for her son, what happened to him was wrong and the mistakes have been learnt from. Times have changed.

 

[Blueronron]

What we need first is better stewarding to stop flares etc being brought into the ground and then courses to spot potential trouble makers who make it into the ground,how many times has a fat,shirtless beer intoxicated fan incited others from 50 yards,only not to be the victim outside the ground,but causing a potential backlash to an innocent leaving the ground by a rival fan.
We had on here the two sitting in South upper,who got their own topic,can you imagine 200 of them getting more abusive as their pack mentality gets bigger,sort them out early and the pack will break up and go away
Thankfully we seem to have only one or two Cavemen at the club, who's bellies are bigger than their brain cells when posting and then its seems only to boister the lack of confidence
Do I want standing back yes, do I want to stand with these true fans who's idea to abuse away fans when losing then defo No vote
Change the mentality of how to steward/police supporters and act on first incident then maybe it will work,but until then...

 

[Jam_Man]

What we need first is better stewarding to stop flares etc being brought into the ground and then courses to spot potential trouble makers who make it into the ground,how many times has a fat,shirtless beer intoxicated fan incited others from 50 yards,only not to be the victim outside the ground,but causing a potential backlash to an innocent leaving the ground by a rival fan.
We had on here the two sitting in South upper,who got their own topic,can you imagine 200 of them getting more abusive as their pack mentality gets bigger,sort them out early and the pack will break up and go away
Thankfully we seem to have only one or two Cavemen at the club, who's bellies are bigger than their brain cells when posting and then its seems only to boister the lack of confidence
Do I want standing back yes, do I want to stand with these true fans who's idea to abuse away fans when losing then defo No vote
Change the mentality of how to steward/police supporters and act on first incident then maybe it will work,but until then...

Sorry, you want people who don't want to abuse away fans not to go to football games ?

That's rather harsh, you'll lose a big part of what the game is about and that has nothing to do with how safe standing is viable or not. You'll always get that rivalry at football and whilst its not something I do or want to be sitting near I certainly don't want to see that taken out of the game.

I really dont see how this is connected with safe standing, those people can do that already in the north bank, how will safe standing make that situation in any way worse that what is already in place?

 

[Blueronron]

Really abusing fans is a big part of the game, must have missed that in my build up to the game, lets not get confused with banter to abusive actions ie slitting throat sign,Nescafe hand signs,donot want a 70's episode to be replayed
Just an opinion ,obviously you accepting it as part of the game is different to mine,been to many a Rugby/Cricket game where opposite fans drink and stand side by side and enjoy the banter rather than abusive threats

In regards to standing the seats can offer stewards time to dampen down a situation as fan will be slower in getting into a tussle with away fans, however the down side is the seats canbe used as weapon as opposed to the original idea of sitting
As stated all for standing but only in an enviroment where you can watch without looking over my shoulder at oiks feeling macho

As previous we have a few as any club does,but be good to be able to educate rather than eradicate them from football

UTS

 

[Jam_Man]

Cricket and Football are certainly different games.

Fans can do the nasty stuff you point out already, safe standing will make no difference to that so I dont see why you put that up as an objection to it.

We are not talking about open terraces where people can move up and down.

Safe standing has MORE obstacles than a seating area where everyone is standing anyway. Have you actually seen the safe seating stands? There is still a seat plus a bar, it is easier to climb over a seated area than a safe seated area.

 

[maninasuitcase]

While I have every sympathy for the HFSG, they seem to fail to acknowledge you can already stand at Accrington, Burton, Bristol Rovers etc. If you can safely stand at these grounds I cannot see why you cannot safely stand at others.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

I think it's only a matter of time before safe standing is introduced now, and I for one can't wait and really hope we have it if and when we ever move to Fossetts. The argument in favour of it is overwhelming.

 

[Jam_Man]

So per the trust meetings it looks like the angle of the Fossetts stands is going to be too steep for the safe standing rails.

Whilst Im pleased to hear that the stadium will have steep stands, its disappointing that safe standing rails as they are wouldnt fit.

Hopefully there will be other versions that will be compatible.