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Question Should we blame the 'Consortium' ?

well as I understand it if Ron has not got the money at the hearing the club will be wound up and cease to exist. I've said it before and no one seemed interested at the time but if the consortium love the club more than they hate Ron Martin they must speak to him and become in some shape or form partners. I know they'll all have to compromise but wtf. Lock them in a room and don't allow them out until it's sorted.
 
Interesting theories!

I should point out I'm not the consortium but I know key people. Forgive me if I can't shed more light than I'm able.

Some history. The consortium were not around until it became clear last autumn that there were very serious financial issues at the club. In fact, around September/October, I discussed with a couple of people privately who I had "met" on ShrimperZone whether they knew of any wealthy fans who may be able to step in to help to save the club if it was going to be necessary. The aim was to put people together who had the interests of the club at heart if the club needed saving.

The consortium that was formed contained lifelong fans (although not exclusively - it contained some other business associates of other members of the consortium).

Like any lifelong fan, they didn't want Southend United to go into administration. I can certainly put to bed the theory that they were somehow motivated by any sort of vendetta!

They made an offer when it became apparent that the club was sailing very close to the wind in terms of the HMRC debt. If we all put ourselves back six months or so, if you'd listened to the official statements you wouldn't have believed there was any problem at all, so it was only near to the hearings that it became apparent how serious things were. After the liquidation petition was changed to an administration petition, they decided that they couldn't sit back and watch any more.

They didn't know how much money Ron Martin had behind him. For all they knew, he could easily have paid the HMRC debt off through his own funds. What they wanted was for the debt to be paid and for the club NOT to go into administration as that would have unravelled all Tilly and Brush's good work (little did we all know then just how bad things would turn out as the season has progressed).

At the time, they said that they wanted one of two things to happen: either Ron Martin to come up with the money and avert administration; or for him to allow the consortium in as an alternative.

There have been recent posts from some people suggesting that the consortium may not have existed or that we don't know who they are. The details of some of the members have been published, and you can go back to the Echo at the time to find out more. They certainly did exist! And I can also confirm that Anton Johnson is not amongst their number, so we can put that theory to bed too!

After administration had been averted, they then decided that they still wanted to be involved. Out of the public eye, they made an excellent offer for Ron Martin that would have seen him walk away with a seven or eight figure sum. However, Ron was not interested, as was his prerogative as owner. He thought he could take the club forward, and he probably still believes that. So that was that. We are left with Ron Martin in charge.

I can confirm that they would not just hand over money to Ron Martin to do whatever he likes with. Business people don't make money by just frittering it away. They would want to be properly involved if it's their money. And it's still the Ron Martin show. They offered him a very good deal to walk away and he didn't take it. So what next? If Ron needs help, he should have asked for it. But he turned their good offer down, so what more can you do?

If the worst happens and there's blame to be attached, it's not to some people who were willing to put money in to try to take the club forward, but to the person who has presided over an annual loss of £2.4m on a turnover of £5m, and everything else that has occurred at our club recently.

I find it hard to imagine how people willing to put money into our club could be blamed, especially when it would be with the aim of saving its very existence. People may well now question their tactics and whether with hindsight (just like criticising Tilly's tactics) we can give our own opinion of what they should have done at the time, but it was their money that they were willing to invest, so again that was their decision as to when they did things in public and when behind closed doors. And most people don't know the full picture so it's hard to make a judgement either way. I can assure everyone, though, that like any fans they wanted what was best for the club.

They are certainly not the ones who should be blamed for the mess the club's in.
 
Interesting theories!

I should point out I'm not the consortium but I know key people. Forgive me if I can't shed more light than I'm able.

Some history. The consortium were not around until it became clear last autumn that there were very serious financial issues at the club. In fact, around September/October, I discussed with a couple of people privately who I had "met" on ShrimperZone whether they knew of any wealthy fans who may be able to step in to help to save the club if it was going to be necessary. The aim was to put people together who had the interests of the club at heart if the club needed saving.

The consortium that was formed contained lifelong fans (although not exclusively - it contained some other business associates of other members of the consortium).

Like any lifelong fan, they didn't want Southend United to go into administration. I can certainly put to bed the theory that they were somehow motivated by any sort of vendetta!

They made an offer when it became apparent that the club was sailing very close to the wind in terms of the HMRC debt. If we all put ourselves back six months or so, if you'd listened to the official statements you wouldn't have believed there was any problem at all, so it was only near to the hearings that it became apparent how serious things were. After the liquidation petition was changed to an administration petition, they decided that they couldn't sit back and watch any more.

They didn't know how much money Ron Martin had behind him. For all they knew, he could easily have paid the HMRC debt off through his own funds. What they wanted was for the debt to be paid and for the club NOT to go into administration as that would have unravelled all Tilly and Brush's good work (little did we all know then just how bad things would turn out as the season has progressed).

At the time, they said that they wanted one of two things to happen: either Ron Martin to come up with the money and avert administration; or for him to allow the consortium in as an alternative.

There have been recent posts from some people suggesting that the consortium may not have existed or that we don't know who they are. The details of some of the members have been published, and you can go back to the Echo at the time to find out more. They certainly did exist! And I can also confirm that Anton Johnson is not amongst their number, so we can put that theory to bed too!

After administration had been averted, they then decided that they still wanted to be involved. Out of the public eye, they made an excellent offer for Ron Martin that would have seen him walk away with a seven or eight figure sum. However, Ron was not interested, as was his prerogative as owner. He thought he could take the club forward, and he probably still believes that. So that was that. We are left with Ron Martin in charge.

I can confirm that they would not just hand over money to Ron Martin to do whatever he likes with. Business people don't make money by just frittering it away. They would want to be properly involved if it's their money. And it's still the Ron Martin show. They offered him a very good deal to walk away and he didn't take it. So what next? If Ron needs help, he should have asked for it. But he turned their good offer down, so what more can you do?

If the worst happens and there's blame to be attached, it's not to some people who were willing to put money in to try to take the club forward, but to the person who has presided over an annual loss of £2.4m on a turnover of £5m, and everything else that has occurred at our club recently.

I find it hard to imagine how people willing to put money into our club could be blamed, especially when it would be with the aim of saving its very existence. People may well now question their tactics and whether with hindsight (just like criticising Tilly's tactics) we can give our own opinion of what they should have done at the time, but it was their money that they were willing to invest, so again that was their decision as to when they did things in public and when behind closed doors. And most people don't know the full picture so it's hard to make a judgement either way. I can assure everyone, though, that like any fans they wanted what was best for the club.

They are certainly not the ones who should be blamed for the mess the club's in.

Thanks for that EB - I can imagine it took you a while to put that response together.

You are right - hindsight is a wonderful thing and if as you say there is /was no vendetta then I accept that the 'Consortium' acted with the best of intentions. However, it seems possible that if RM has really got so far out of his depth that the situation cannot be saved, that those actions in November may go down in history as counter-productive.

There don't seem to be too many good options around right now - are you saying that after RM rejected the subsequent offer, the 'Consortium' effectively withdrew their interest ?
 
Have the consortium approached RM with an offer that would include the two parties splitting the share of the club? If not, why not? With RM and his companies owning the majority of the land pivotal to the club's "future", He becomes pivotal to our future and if members of the consortium were truly fans of the club, surely they'd be willing to negotiate such an instance where they can provide Martin with necessary finance for a reasonable share instead of ousting him outright?
 
Thanks to EB for his response .. but can i have a direct answer to the question i raised if at all possible .. i'll reiterate to save you going back

If, worst case scenario, RM is asked for the money for HMRC in The High Court on Wednesday 14th April and he doesn't have it (and so the registrar moves the club be wound up) can and will The Consortium step forward and pay what is due ? And by that of course i mean pay HMRC direct, as opposed to funding RM ??

Then (and perhaps only then) actions will speak louder than words
 
Thanks to EB for his response .. but can i have a direct answer to the question i raised if at all possible .. i'll reiterate to save you going back

If, worst case scenario, RM is asked for the money for HMRC in The High Court on Wednesday 14th April and he doesn't have it (and so the registrar moves the club be wound up) can and will The Consortium step forward and pay what is due ? And by that of course i mean pay HMRC direct, as opposed to funding RM ??

Then (and perhaps only then) actions will speak louder than words

Doesn't look like we are going to get a response to this one then.

Maybe the 'Consortium' know that RM will come up with the dosh and have lost interest, so maybe we should stop worrying.
 
Doesn't look like we are going to get a response to this one then.

Maybe the 'Consortium' know that RM will come up with the dosh and have lost interest, so maybe we should stop worrying.

The Echo would seem to indicate that today...
 
Thanks to EB for his response .. but can i have a direct answer to the question i raised if at all possible .. i'll reiterate to save you going back

If, worst case scenario, RM is asked for the money for HMRC in The High Court on Wednesday 14th April and he doesn't have it (and so the registrar moves the club be wound up) can and will The Consortium step forward and pay what is due ? And by that of course i mean pay HMRC direct, as opposed to funding RM ??

Then (and perhaps only then) actions will speak louder than words

I can't see why they would do that, as paying the HMRC will not be getting them a share of the club or interest in it and would merely be a gift.....a very expensive one at that, and RM would still be in charge....
 
EB could you explain why the consortium felt that using 2M of future income (the sainsburies money) to avoid administration when administration would have ringfenced the debt and possibly allowing a rebuild, was to the clubs advantage.


It was my understanding that the presence of the consortium prevented administration and as such forced RM to use money that may have been available to rebuild after administration.
Should RM not be able to find the money by next week
All deferring administration has done is wasted 2.2M , and cost us 10 points next season.
 
EB could you explain why the consortium felt that using 2M of future income (the sainsburies money) to avoid administration when administration would have ringfenced the debt and possibly allowing a rebuild, was to the clubs advantage.


It was my understanding that the presence of the consortium prevented administration and as such forced RM to use money that may have been available to rebuild after administration.
Should RM not be able to find the money by next week
All deferring administration has done is wasted 2.2M , and cost us 10 points next season.


The consortium didn't know what Ron's position was or his access to funds. Please also read my earlier post for the history of how they came about. To summarise, various fans saw what was gradually coming out (although denied by the club at the time) about the club's state and got together and made an offer to save the club in case Ron didn't have the money to take the club forward.

They said it would be great if Ron had the money and could avoid administration. Alternatively, they said, the consortium could step in to avoid the club having to go into administration and lose 10 points, which would inevitably put the club in a relegation battle and no one wanted to see the club go down to League Two. It's easy to say now that we were going to go down anyway whether or not we went into administration, but this wasn't clearly the position at the time when we were mid-table.

After administration was averted in November, the consortium then made Ron a very good offer which would have seen him walk away with a lot of money, so it could be argued that if he'd accepted that the club could have had a "normal" season from that point. Even after the Sainsbury's deal had been done.

I have no idea why you think Ron was going to put the club into administration but for the consortium coming on the scene? Do you know what he was going to do? What he would have done would only be known by people in his circle.

If we assume your suggestion is right and that Ron did choose to borrow the money from Sainsbury's just because the consortium was out there, that was still entirely Ron's decision. If he did a bad deal to secure funds then no one forced him to do that. That was still his call. The consortium did not know what money he had access to or what the terms of getting that money were.

To be clear, borrowing even more money from the future (whether from Sainsbury's, season ticket money with the World Cup offer, or from the Trust) is certainly NOT something that the consortium or any other possible investor would have wanted to see happen. Quite the opposite. It didn't help the club they support and it didn't make it any more attractive to invest in.

At some point, the people financially running the club have to take responsibility for these issues and they can't be deflected onto someone else who wasn't involved:
1 Making an annual loss of £2.4m on turnover of £5m.
2 Failing to prepare financially for the not unlikely relegation from the Championship.
3 The squad size.
4 The issue of paying staff and the effect this has had on morale.
5 The transfer embargoes.
6 The Revell fiasco.
7 The failure to sign a permanent centre half in however long.
8 The lack of continuity in playing staff with constant revolving doors of loan players.
9 Players having to play out of position or when just coming back from injury.
10 Accumulating such massive debts.
11 Borrowing from future revenues, including season ticket monies, the Trust, and the Sainsbury's monies.
13 Not trying to do a deal with the consortium when there was a good one on offer.
14 The Paul Brush situation.
15 The David Webb situation.
16 No work starting on the stadium yet.
17 The story about Pizza Man.
18 The falling out with Spencer Prior.
19 The Echo situation.

The list could go on.

I've not yet seen even any form of personal acceptance of responsibility or apology for what's happened to our club. What I have heard is blame attached to current and former players/management team, the Echo, previous regimes, HMRC, the Government, etc.

With hindsight, knowing that Ron's other companies would borrow future money from Sainsbury's possibly on bad terms, maybe you could argue that the consortium's tactics were not the right ones? Who knows. That may be right or not. No one other than Ron's circle knew what he was going to do at the time, though. If Ron did do a bad deal to keep it all for himself rather than negotiate with potential outside investors, that's his decision.

I'm not on here to argue blindly that the consortium got their tactics right. What I do know is that they had the best of intentions to take the club forward if Ron Martin didn't have the money to do so and my opinion was that they would have done a great job.

But the responsibility for the awful mess the club's in should not be pointed at them. The man in charge has to take at least some of the blame!
 
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IMO, when comparing RM's ownership with what would/could happen under the Consortium, Any questions relating to permanent signings and/or squad sizes are moot points. The consortium made becoming self sufficient a key point of their plan for the club when they announced their interest publicly and Firestorm has already pointed out that that would require a significant reduction in the wages available across the board in order for that to become a reality without extra revenue streams.

It's fair to criticise RM proportionally for the mess the squad is in, but it wouldn't be any better under the consortium's leadership.
 
How do you know that the club is borrowing from Sainsburys on "bad terms"? Surely that is just speculation?
 
How do you know that the club is borrowing from Sainsburys on "bad terms"? Surely that is just speculation?

I stand to be corrected, but didn't Ron say at the Q&A that the £2m or so from Sainsbury's was charged against land that was about twice that value? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Even if I'm wrong on that, it's very likely (and this bit is pure speculation, I admit) that Sainsbury's would have wanted to lend the £2m on very good terms for them as Ron really wanted the money then and Sainsbury's wouldn't have chosen to act as a bank to Ron unless the returns for them were good. Risk, reward, opportunity cost, etc.
 
But, as the land that is acting as collateral for the loan is not SUFC related, is that any of our business?
 
I stand to be corrected, but didn't Ron say at the Q&A that the £2m or so from Sainsbury's was charged against land that was about twice that value? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Even if I'm wrong on that, it's very likely (and this bit is pure speculation, I admit) that Sainsbury's would have wanted to lend the £2m on very good terms for them as Ron really wanted the money then and Sainsbury's wouldn't have chosen to act as a bank to Ron unless the returns for them were good. Risk, reward, opportunity cost, etc.

So it is pure speculation.

Sainsburys, as with any lender, want to be sure that if the borrower defaults the assets held as security can be realised at a value that covers not only the loan, but associated costs. RM doesn't have loads of odd bits of land, so he offers what he has, which exceeds the value needed so will do nicely. This is nothing to do with what he has to eventually repay in terms of interest, we aren't privy to that so aren't in a position to comment as to whether it is on bad terms or not.

As for your other point, the returns for Sainsbury will be one of the largest stores in the country in a prime central-ish location, I don't think you need to look any further to see the incentive for them.
 
I stand to be corrected, but didn't Ron say at the Q&A that the £2m or so from Sainsbury's was charged against land that was about twice that value? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Even if I'm wrong on that, it's very likely (and this bit is pure speculation, I admit) that Sainsbury's would have wanted to lend the £2m on very good terms for them as Ron really wanted the money then and Sainsbury's wouldn't have chosen to act as a bank to Ron unless the returns for them were good. Risk, reward, opportunity cost, etc.

To be fair to him on that, and as far as I can recall, he said the 2 million was secured on a parcel of land, although where this land is only RM and whoever is negotiating for Sainsbury's will know. Having said that and stating the obvious Sainsbury's aren't likely to raise the wind on land with less value. I would also venture that the land would be ultimately beneficial for Sainsbury's to build on.
 
I stand to be corrected, but didn't Ron say at the Q&A that the £2m or so from Sainsbury's was charged against land that was about twice that value? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Even if I'm wrong on that, it's very likely (and this bit is pure speculation, I admit) that Sainsbury's would have wanted to lend the £2m on very good terms for them as Ron really wanted the money then and Sainsbury's wouldn't have chosen to act as a bank to Ron unless the returns for them were good. Risk, reward, opportunity cost, etc.

But, as the land that is acting as collateral for the loan is not SUFC related, is that any of our business?

I think the pertinent point about the land that is acting as collateral is that it only comes into play if RM can't repay it.
 
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