South Africa Tour 2019/20

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I think it's sadly born out of painful past experience. All I'm about to concede is that they have done well to get to the end of the day with having only lost one wicket.

Morning session is key. Come through with only one more down and we give ourselves a huge chance. Day four pitch shouldn’t be a issue. Denly didn’t seem concerned with the pitch.

 

[AndyT]

I don’t see the logic of dropping him for NZ tour (he wasn’t rested he was dropped) only to pick him for SA tour. Should have played Crawley. Bairstow has done nothing to warrant his place and it stinks of favouritism.

Exactly how I see it. There's a lot of muddled thinking with selection. It started with not taking Foakes to NZ.

For me, I'd rather see Foakes at 7 and keeping, leaving Buttler/Bairstow/Pope/Crawley to battle for the six spot based on batting ability.

Neither Buttler nor Bairstow has a solid enough recent record to warrant playing as a batsman, yet they are in ahead of Foakes who has a test average of 41 and is the better keeper.

 

[rigsby]

Morning session is key. Come through with only one more down and we give ourselves a huge chance. Day four pitch shouldn’t be a issue. Denly didn’t seem concerned with the pitch.

Burns got himself in trouble with the spinner after one landed in the foot holes. He started charging down and nearly chucked his wicket away.

At least he calmed down and realised the flat straight ball just need be punished.

The theory is Sibley isn't so good with left arm spin.....Still trying to work out what he was trying to do with that shot. Shame because it spoilt all his good work.

 

[AndyT]

Yep, Sibley struggled a little against Santner as well. I think he kind of gets caught in two minds as to whether to play or leave. He generally leaves the ball really well, which is less easy against spinners.

Of course, in April and May in the County Championship he generally will face seam early in his innings, so this is a new challenge as well.

Actually really like him and think he has what it takes. Just hope he doesn't get discarded too soon.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Exactly how I see it. There's a lot of muddled thinking with selection. It started with not taking Foakes to NZ.

For me, I'd rather see Foakes at 7 and keeping, leaving Buttler/Bairstow/Pope/Crawley to battle for the six spot based on batting ability.

Neither Buttler nor Bairstow has a solid enough recent record to warrant playing as a batsman, yet they are in ahead of Foakes who has a test average of 41 and is the better keeper.

Excellent hundred on debut and dropped after five tests after selectors publicly stated he would be given long run in the team. And no prizes guessing who takes his place...
Never been explained properly why this has happened and both Bairstow and Buttler have been poor.
Ed Smith is head of selection so this is at his door but Joe Root is well known for admiration of Bairstow so it at least looks like he is digging in his heels over Bairstow's selection in the team.
He's not a test 3,4,5 or 6 - would accept batting 7 if keeping wicket but they have opted for Buttler to take the gloves.
It's a bloody mess!

 

[AndyT]

I liked Bairstow for a long while, but his petulant childish behaviour in Sri Lanka when he didn't get his wicket-keeping toys back was embarrassing.

His current test form is pretty abysmal and he constantly burns up reviews if he lasts long enough to challenge one.

This is all down, as you say, to the favouritism of Root. Foakes is clearly being frozen out to protect Buttler and Bairstow. Even keeping with Pope to protect them.

We've been through all this before with Prior and Foster. The team set up seems to protect the in-crowd, at the expense of what's best for English cricket.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

It was difficult to argue against Prior TBH - his record is excellent for England in tests. When Fozzie first played for England it was Stewart who held the gloves and he was still one of Englands few class batters so IMO it was just bad timing he didn't really get a go.
As for Bairstow, for me the head butting nonsense in Oz made me open my eyes to what a first class prat he is.

 

[AndyT]

Agreed on the subsequent success of Prior and my apologies, you're right, it was Chris Read who was thrown into the deep end in Australia where we were soundly thrashed, as always in those days, but not even given the first home series the following summer against a sub-standard West Indies side, where Prior debuted and scored 126*.

Foster was at the time of the Stewart era, as you say, but to never be considered again at test level after this was surprising at the very least. He made his final test appearance in 2002, some 15 years before his retirement.

 

[Ex-Member1]

Game is sadly slipping away now after much hope. 7 down.

 

[AndyT]

As ever, with a couple of exceptions, it's the hope that kills you.

 

[Ex-Member1]

Mostly suicidal batting again I fear. Not having much luck supporting my teams at the moment!!

 

[AndyT]

It always is brainless batting. Burns played an horrendous shot just when we had complete control and having seen off the initial threat of Rabada and Philander.

Two days to get the runs. Just grind them out.

 

[kaymac]

And yet another collapse. Getting all too frequent.

 

[Ricky Otto]

How often are an international side at the top in all formats? That is a genuine question not a rhetorical one as I can't remember a world cup winning side being the top test side at the same time, I could be wrong though and. West Indies in the time they have won 3 world T20s have been pretty abysmal in tests. India possibly? If it does happen it is rare in the modern era. The evolution of white ball cricket means that is further away from test cricket than it has ever been. When we had the number one test side we had a poor slow scoring one day team which was an extension of the test side. Now we have the reverse with too many quicker scoring big hitters in the test side who can't stay in, hence these mid order collapses.
I think most England fans were happy with the result of us focusing on white ball cricket and winning the world cup.
This test team does disappoint at the moment but having the best test team in the world at the start of the decade and the best one day team in the world at the end of it is a success IMO. Hopefully we can start the new decade winning the world t20 in 2020.

 

[rigsby]

How often are an international side at the top in all formats? That is a genuine question not a rhetorical one as I can't remember a world cup winning side being the top test side at the same time, I could be wrong though and. West Indies in the time they have won 3 world T20s have been pretty abysmal in tests. India possibly? If it does happen it is rare in the modern era. The evolution of white ball cricket means that is further away from test cricket than it has ever been. When we had the number one test side we had a poor slow scoring one day team which was an extension of the test side. Now we have the reverse with too many quicker scoring big hitters in the test side who can't stay in, hence these mid order collapses.
I think most England fans were happy with the result of us focusing on white ball cricket and winning the world cup.
This test team does disappoint at the moment but having the best test team in the world at the start of the decade and the best one day team in the world at the end of it is a success IMO. Hopefully we can start the new decade winning the world t20 in 2020.

Australia under Steve Waugh.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Australia under Steve Waugh.

What a team as well! In that 20 years from his last world cup win in 1999 the one day game has become a lot more distanced from test cricket, back then 300+ scores were considered virtually un-chasable now that benchmark is 400+ scores. I do wonder if we'll ever see a side that dominates red and white ball again with the same core of players. I think the way forward for England is probably only having 3 or 4 players that are in both squads.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Australia under Steve Waugh.

And Ponting too.

But that's arguably the greatest team ever.

If you have a team as dominant as that one (see also WIndies in the late 70s and through the 80s) they are likely to dominant all formats but that type of domination is the exception rather than the rule. You also need to figure in that the best team doesn't always win the World Cup as it's a knockout tournament and one bad game can do for you.

 

[rigsby]

The game of Cricket has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. The Test and one day teams were often the same or with the odd specialist coming in. Now we have different captains as well as players. So in future it will be a country rather than a team that might dominate

The scores have increased in one day as the batsmen have invented shots and the bats have become better than ever. More importantly they have moved the boundaries in the pursuit of ever more 6's and bigger scorers. I have seen many a big innings, including Stokes in the final, that would have been out if the rope had been where it should be.

The negative side of slog feast cricket is that far to many players in an England shirt can't seem to bat with their teat head on....As proved already in SA. Equally our bowlers cant just bowl tight overs in the right area when needed and Root doesn't no went to attack with his fielding positions....All summer I wanted a wide leg slip and someone backward of square for Steve Smith.....We managed it on his last innings at the Oval....How about bowling Archer first thing in the morning session against a nigh watchman and someone in short. Rather than to many bouncers later on. Or Stokes seeing one fly through the vacant second slip area to a new batsman....It should have been 3 slips never mind 2. Cricket and certainly captaincy is all about the moment, just like football and life itself. We are now obsessed with having someone to micro mange us all....Often curtailing natural talent whilst they do.

That said the nonsense ridged bowling plans have been going back for years now. Of course if you never go against the stats then the stats will always be right. I was in Perth in 2006 when Mr cricket in all forms and local lad Mike Hussey was a big talking point with the locals. I confidently told all the convicts and fellow England fans all around me that that Hussey was real scratchy first few balls and if Harmison dug one in on the famous bouncing Perth pitch against at the left hander all we needed was a short square leg......Sure enough a few balls in and on 0 he looked more like Devon Malcom as he blindly popped one up in the air only for it to fall where a fielder should have been.....The Auzzies reminded me of that when we clapped his 50.....And again when we clapped his 100.

 

[Ricky Otto]

The game of Cricket has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. The Test and one day teams were often the same or with the odd specialist coming in. Now we have different captains as well as players. So in future it will be a country rather than a team that might dominate

The scores have increased in one day as the batsmen have invented shots and the bats have become better than ever. More importantly they have moved the boundaries in the pursuit of ever more 6's and bigger scorers. I have seen many a big innings, including Stokes in the final, that would have been out if the rope had been where it should be.

The negative side of slog feast cricket is that far to many players in an England shirt can't seem to bat with their teat head on....As proved already in SA. Equally our bowlers cant just bowl tight overs in the right area when needed and Root doesn't no went to attack with his fielding positions....All summer I wanted a wide leg slip and someone backward of square for Steve Smith.....We managed it on his last innings at the Oval....How about bowling Archer first thing in the morning session against a nigh watchman and someone in short. Rather than to many bouncers later on. Or Stokes seeing one fly through the vacant second slip area to a new batsman....It should have been 3 slips never mind 2. Cricket and certainly captaincy is all about the moment, just like football and life itself. We are now obsessed with having someone to micro mange us all....Often curtailing natural talent whilst they do.

That said the nonsense ridged bowling plans have been going back for years now. Of course if you never go against the stats then the stats will always be right. I was in Perth in 2006 when Mr cricket in all forms and local lad Mike Hussey was a big talking point with the locals. I confidently told all the convicts and fellow England fans all around me that that Hussey was real scratchy first few balls and if Harmison dug one in on the famous bouncing Perth pitch against at the left hander all we needed was a short square leg......Sure enough a few balls in and on 0 he looked more like Devon Malcom as he blindly popped one up in the air only for it to fall where a fielder should have been.....The Auzzies reminded me of that when we clapped his 50.....And again when we clapped his 100.

They are unbearable! I wouldn't mind so much if they could take it when the "banter" is returned. I was living out there when we won the ashes in 2010/11. Before the start they were going on about how they would beat us then as soon as we started well all of a sudden we were cheats because half our team were South African etc. I shouldn't have bit but I did point out that their team didn't have a single aboriginal so were all immigrants over the last few generations.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Would like to think Pope will be recalled to the side Friday. Root probably itching to get Bairstow a spot somewhere (has he opened the bowling yet?) but it would ludicrous if he kept his place now.
Root has to take the lion's share of the blame for defeat in the last test. Not batting first on that wicket in those conditions once you won the toss is up there with Nasser Hussain doing something similar at the Gabba a few years back. Frankly shows a total lack of belief in your team mates and I wouldn't have thought it has gone down to well with some of the senior players like Broad and Anderson. Poor captaincy.
Chef was often accused of being a negative captain but I'm certain he would have batted first as would nearly all captains in the same position.