The Ashes

[C C Csiders]

See Link

No thanks. Good to see AB totally agree with my comments (re G. Jones and Collingwood) above, though later on in the article.

 

[Grayson]

Noooo! Robert Key is rubbish, he adds nothing bowling or fielding (can he move?) and there are many better batsmen than him.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

I think Robert Key is destined to become the new Mark Ramprakrash: the best and most prolific batsman on the county circuit by some way, yet dropped and recalled like a yo-yo by England and never allowed to establish himself in the team.

Museshrimper - which county batsmen are better than Key?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ July 26 2005,15:52)]Museshrimper - which county batsmen are better than Key?

I'll open the bidding with Graeme Hick and Mal Loye...

Matt

 

[Grayson]

Ed Joyce another

 

[canveyshrimper]

Agree with Mal Loye, but not Hicky anymore. I will offer up David Sales or Ed Joyce.

 

[C C Csiders]

The aforementioned Mr Ramprakash and Owais Shah.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 26 2005,16:21)]Owais Shah.

Hmm... which reminds me, what happened to Usman Afzaal...? How wonderful it would be, for a whole host of reasons, if he were starring for England at the moment...

 

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 26 2005,16:23)]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 26 2005,16:21)]Owais Shah.

Hmm... which reminds me, what happened to Usman Afzaal...?  How wonderful it would be, for a whole host of reasons, if he were starring for England at the moment...

168 not out for Northants this season against Essex. Apart from that not much.

 

[Grayson]

What reasons would that be? Or have I missed something? *awaits getting 'wooooosh' as a reply*

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Oh, I was alluding to the fact that he's a young Muslim man - and that it would be really positive, in the light of 7/7, for him to be playing well for England, if he were in the side... he'd be a really positive English & Muslim male role model. Perhaps it's naive, but to see a Muslim guy out there, scoring runs for England - and thereby necessarily saying "I see myself as English, and I'm proud to do things for my country" might assist with the feelings of alienation that so many young Muslim men feel in our country.

That was my thinking, at any rate. Indeed, it's hard to think of many, if any, other young British muslims on the fringes of a national team sport - so, at the moment, it's up to the boxers (Khan, Hamed).

Matt

 

[Grayson]

I see, fair point, especially as cricket is the game that the Muslim and Hindu people love. If he were good enough though, he could be in it.

 

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 26 2005,16:38)]Oh, I was alluding to the fact that he's a young Muslim man - and that it would be really positive, in the light of 7/7, for him to be playing well for England, if he were in the side... he'd be a really positive English & Muslim male role model.  Perhaps it's naive, but to see a Muslim guy out there, scoring runs for England - and thereby necessarily saying "I see myself as English, and I'm proud to do things for my country" might assist with the feelings of alienation that so many young Muslim men feel in our country.

That was my thinking, at any rate.  Indeed, it's hard to think of many, if any, other young British muslims on the fringes of a national team sport - so, at the moment, it's up to the boxers (Khan, Hamed).

Matt

And of course there can be no gretaer role model in this respect (being a Muslim and playing for and captaining England) than Nasser Hussain.

 

[Grayson]

Is he a muslim though? He was born in India (i think), but does he actually follow that faith?

 

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Museshrimper @ July 26 2005,16:56)]Is he a muslim though? He was born in India (i think), but does he actually follow that faith?

Yep deffo a Muslim. He was born in India, I think his father is Egyptian though. Possibly a Muslim in name only - I was christened but I certainly do not go to church. I am a complete non-believer.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

But, alas, Nass has retired... and he's not as obviously a "young Muslim man" in the same way as Afzaal.  Indeed, Nasser was so "Brit" that you could forget he was Muslim at all.

Afzaal is - in his manner and his upbringing - someone who still looks and seems a part of the community of young, British Muslim men - the very ones whom we need to be including in our society right now.

However, he has to get into the side on merit.  It's just a shame that that's not happening at the moment.

Matt

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Incidentally, CCCsiders - cricinfo / Wisden have said the same as you suggested for the Egbaston test: keep the side the same, except drop Giles for Collingwood (who I understand has just hit a ton in the County Championship).

My side for next week would be:

1. Trescothick
2. Strauss
3. Vaughan (capt)
4. Pietersen
5. Bell
6. Collingwood
7. Flintoff
8. G.O. Jones (wk)
9. Hoggard
10. Harmison
11. S. Jones

Matt

 

[Grayson]

Same, I'd also have that. Collingwood is a better bat than Giles, a better fielder and would probably trouble the aussies just as much as Giles does bowling.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Two batsmen dominated county cricket last year. Both were for once English. One was Bell, the other Key.

Key hit 1500+ runs at about 90 last year.
He's followed it up with another 1000 (nearly) at over 60 this season.

Everyone goes on about his size (no-one in Oz seems to mind when Boon, Merv Hughes and Warne were/are doing the business), but the main thing he seems to have an appetite for is runs!

Mal Loye is just a knee-jerk reaction as he has made two consecutive big scores. He's also what 33 years old?

Joyce is a decent shout, he's dominating like Key did last year. The question is can he do this every season, like Key is doing.

Sales and Shah may have the talent but have yet to get close to matching Key's runs.

Ramps and Hick are too old to be considered.

 

[C C Csiders]

Embers joins the club:

J.E.Emburey's view

That's Allan Border, Wisden/Cricinfo, John Emburey, MtS and me the new England selection panel.