The Ashes

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ July 22 2005,15:30)]I'll sound churlish - you can't afford to drop 3 catches against the Aussies in a low scoring game.

He's apparently dropped Clarke just before lunch off Jones.

He got away with the first two, but he has badly blooped with dropping Clarke...

 

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 22 2005,15:56)]He got away with the first two, but he has badly blooped with dropping Clarke...

Who knows Matt - Aussies carry on like this and you might get some play on Sunday after all!

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 22 2005,15:56)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ July 22 2005,15:30)]I'll sound churlish - you can't afford to drop 3 catches against the Aussies in a low scoring game.

He's apparently dropped Clarke just before lunch off Jones.

He got away with the first two, but he has badly blooped with dropping Clarke...

Bugger - I will be churlish now. You can't afford to drop any against the Aussies. Also Clarke has been out of form.

Strange because in the one dayers his catching has been fantastic.

Clarke is now 46 not out.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Clarke is 82 n.o. now... Bell is on bowling after the Wheelie Bin got taken out of the attack after a stellar 0/47 off 9 overs.

Looks like I'll be there to watch the Aussies go one-up on Sunday...

 

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 22 2005,16:51)]the Wheelie Bin got taken out of the attack after a stellar 0/47 off 9 overs

Don't you talk about the King of Spain like that

 

[Grayson]

COME ON!!! All of a sudden we have a glimmer of hope with the 2 batters that were in gone in succession. Two new players at the crease, we need another quick one still i feel. Come on England!

 

[blues_r_best]

A great throw by the King of Spain, and Brett Lee is run out.

 

[Guest]

Why is Ashley Giles the King of Spain?

 

[blues_r_best]

Some coffee mugs that were ordered arrived boasting not that he was the "king of spin" but in fact the "king of Spain".

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Three days into the Ashes and I'm already rain-dancing.

Come on the British weather!

 

[ESG]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ July 24 2005,00:43)]Three days into the Ashes and I'm already rain-dancing.

Come on the British weather!

The best 12th man we have....and he's doing well this morning !!

 

[silentshrimper]

leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
did u watch the cricket
DaVe xD says:
nah
leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
mug
DaVe xD says:
whats goin on
leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
we gt slewed
leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
finshed already

repeat of the last 2008689 times wev tried to win hehe

 

[ESG]

Quote[/b] (silentshrimper @ July 24 2005,16:50)]leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
did u watch the cricket
DaVe xD says:
nah
leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
mug
DaVe xD says:
whats goin on
leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
we gt slewed
leigh top bouy no1 football holigan n holiday 2 moz says:
finshed already

repeat of the last 2008689 times wev tried to win hehe

Or to put it another way we were s**t !

Any changes for the 2nd test ??

 

[Grayson]

Personally, I would;ve had Thorpe in for Bell this test. As we cant do that anymore, the only possible change is Key for Bell and I dont see that happening myself. Our middle order is way too inexperienced now, in the past year or so Thorpe, Butcher and Hussain have all disappeared, but Butcher is just injured I think.

Vaughan needs to get runs, if he wasnt captain he would've been out ages ago IMO.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Quote[/b] (Museshrimper @ July 24 2005,18:53)]Personally, I would;ve had Thorpe in for Bell this test. As we cant do that anymore, the only possible change is Key for Bell and I dont see that happening myself. Our middle order is way too inexperienced now, in the past year or so Thorpe, Butcher and Hussain have all disappeared, but Butcher is just injured I think.

Vaughan needs to get runs, if he wasnt captain he would've been out ages ago IMO.

I'm so glad I've finally seen someone else who shares doubts over Bell's place.

As mentioned on here, Thorpe would have loved to come in to a game where there were two days left to chase a big total. Why were all the media saying it was a decision between Thorpe and Pietersen, two players who inspire the most confidence in me when batting against the Aussies.

Fair enough, Bell has something about him and he played Warne reasonably welll for a bit but he was beaten all ends up for the wicket. Thorpe in the same position, I'm adamant would have at least got a start and as we have seen, Pietersen is amazingly unflustered by the big occasion.

There's plenty of pluses to take from the game. Harmison's bowling and Pietersen's batting obviously stand out. I'd also give a mention to the opening pair in the second innings cos they gave us the platform we needed.

The negatives are very worrying though. Number 3 and four for England seem to be a prioblem area when Thorpe's not playing. Not only did Vaughan and Bell score very poorly, neither looked at all confident and Vaughan hasn't looked at all confident for a while now. What I'd give for a Damien Martyn to come in for us there.

Another negative was the horrendously sloppy fielding. I can think of three dropped chances that really let us down. Not just Pietersen. Jones again raised doubts over his wicketkeeping although at least put up some resistance in the first innings. You just can't give spurn chances when playing against superior opposition. You have to bring your game face and there seemed to be a few left in the changing room.

The big question following this test in my eyes, though, is should Thorpe be in for Bell?

 

[sismith]

Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ July 24 2005,21:41)]Vaughan needs to get runs, if he wasnt captain he would've been out ages ago IMO.

I'm so glad I've finally seen someone else who shares doubts over Bell's place.

Another negative was the horrendously sloppy fielding.  I can think of three dropped chances that really let us down.  Not just Pietersen.  [/QUOTE]
Those are the 3 most striking things to come out of it.
I hate to say it but catches do win matches.

I cant see Vaughan going before the world cup in 2007

And Ian Bell despite playing well all summer domestically isnt up to facing Lee Warne and co. just yet,.

 

[canveyshrimper]

The point that people are missing about Thorpe is that he has a chronic back condition, which could go again at any time, by Thorpe,s own admission. Thorpe has been a great player for England but we have to look to the future and it was likely that Bell would play at some time if his back gave out.

There are plusses the Aussies do not fancy Harmison, and similarly Flintoff & Jones. There will not be changes for Edgbaston, and that in my view is about right. The bowlers have proved that they can take 20 wickets. Now it is up to the batsmen to prove they can play against McGrath & Warne, and the fielders not to spill chances that come their way.

The Aussies are ruthless and all their years of domination have not blunted this ruthlessness. We know England at their best can compete, and although this series is a year early for England there is nothing wrong with the basics of the England team. They have progressed, are well coached and well led and need to be supported. No doubt there will be no nothing no marks in the press calling for wholesale changes and sackings but this has been proven before that it just does not work. The players selected have to hold their hands up, forget Lords and prove the can play in the remaining four matches.

There are other points as well that need to be addressed, like the plethora of one day matches prior to the test series. The late scheduling of the series which cuts across the opening of the football season, and the fact that the pitches are drier and will play into the hands of a certain Mr Warne the greatest spinner of all time.

I would ask everyone to keep faith with the team, we will not win the ashes this time, but we do have the makings of a fine side.

 

[Grayson]

I'm not wanting wholesale changes, I just feel Thorpe, at the moment in time, is better than Ian Bell is, Bell's been thrown in at the deep end, going from playing the easiest team to the hardest and I think he would've been better suited to the ashes after this.

Hope he proves me wrong though...

 

[ESG]

Quote[/b] (Museshrimper @ July 24 2005,18:53)]Personally, I would;ve had Thorpe in for Bell this test. As we cant do that anymore, the only possible change is Key for Bell and I dont see that happening myself. Our middle order is way too inexperienced now, in the past year or so Thorpe, Butcher and Hussain have all disappeared, but Butcher is just injured I think.

Vaughan needs to get runs, if he wasnt captain he would've been out ages ago IMO.

The Ausies have always had a policy of picking the team and then selecting the skipper.
Then again form in temporary and class permanent,just seems Vaughan has picked the wrong time to loose his.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 22 2005,16:51)]Looks like I'll be there to watch the Aussies go one-up on Sunday...

I was there yesterday... and it was miserable.  It goes down as one of the worst days of international cricket at which I've had the misfortune to be present.  The worst thing is that, so far as I know, I will not be entitled to a refund - even though I witnessed fewer than ten overs' play yesterday.

It p*ssed it down for the 6 hours from when I arrived (9.45 a.m. or so) until play started (3.45pm).

I was then "treated" to an hour of monstrously awful cricket from everyone in an England shirt bar Pietersen.  G.O. Jones's shot was diabolical.  In what conceivable way - when, potentially, there was plenty of rain about and thus playing conservatively must have been the only course to be taken - did he think his casual on-side slap was in any way appropriate?  Nob.

Giles was little better... his second ball a textbook piece of fishing outside off-stump, and the ball was duly chipped to gully.

At this point, Pietersen realised he was running out of partners, and so he began to open up.  In a memorable over against Warne, he brought up his fifty by running two after a measured on-side drive.  The next ball, he absolutely thumped Warne out of the ground with a huge on-side six, and then almost repeated the feat the following ball with another straight drive which only just bounced inside the boundary rope for four.  You could tell that Shane was a tad miffed by the fact that KP had larruped him so dismissvely for 12 in an over.

Meanwhile, McGrath continued to clean up at the other end... and sure enough, KP ran out of partners.  Less than an hour after they'd started - including a break for 10 minutes after a sharp shower - the Aussies had won a crushing victory.  Needless to say, I was more than a tad miffed.

So, where does this leave England?  Right now is not the right time to be advocating wholesale changes, but the following thoughts come to mind:

*The only player to come out totally unblemished is Harmison.  Two cracking bowling performances, and match returns of 8/107 (including a five-fer) is highly respectable given the opposition.  He created genuine fear and respect amongst the Aussies.

*From a batting point of view, Kevin Pietersen was quite clearly the right pick for the side... and (as Mike Atherton said on C4 yesterday) the selectors c*cked it up at the beginning of the summer.  The question ought never to have been Pietersen or Thorpe; it ought instead to have been Thorpe or Bell back in May.  They picked Bell - and perhaps they picked wrong.  Bell has gone from smearing the equivalent of a minor counties attack (Bangladesh) to facing Warne & McGrath - and he is clearly not ready, which is a huge shame.  The only question is: what will damage Bell more - being dropped now, or being taken apart by Warne, Lee and McGrath for the rest of the series?  My guess is that another pair of single figure scores at Egbaston will lead to a campaign of begging outside Graham Thorpe's house for one last hurrah against the Aussies.

*Vaughan needs to sort himself out quick.  Mike Brearley he clearly ain't.  The Ayatollah may have been a mediocre batsman himself, but as a psychology graduate, he knew how to wring 100% out of the likes of Beefy, Bob Willis, John Emburey and Graham Dilley.  Vaughan has not done that this Test.  Look at Freddy - some key wickets, perhaps (notably Gilchrist, twice) - but bloody expensive... match stats of 4/173 simply isn't good enough; and he failed miserably twice with the bat.  This is, by a country mile, the toughest hour of Vaughan's captaincy.  He needs to respond in the simplest - and yet most difficult - way possible: runs.  He neads a hatful at Egbaston.

*I think our openers will do OK.  Both sets of openers had a poor first innings - but at 80/0 in the second innings, we looked fine.  It was the failure of Vaughan, Bell and Freddy with the bat that screwed us, not Banger & Strauss.

*Bowl Jones more.  If it were not for dropped catches, his figures would have been far better.  Inded, the bowling attack looked generally OK, apart from the King of Spain (who was woeful) and the fact that Freddy was far too loose, too often.

*Catching... obviously our biggest flaw.  Catches win matches, as they say.  KP was the highest-profile casualty - but he can improve - or be stuck out in the deep.  But the biggest worry was G.O. Jones.  Two or three regulation chances were put down - and that simply won't do.  Time for Fozzie and Chris Read to start grafting, and getting some high profile scores together in the County Championship.   If Jones continues to fail with the gloves as badly as he did at Lord's, then his spot in the side is in my view definitely up for grabs.  His second-innings batting did little to reinforce his candidature for selection, yesterday.

The selectors are unlikely to change anything in advance of Egbaston, I'd wager.  But they will hopefully be making notes of whom they need to watch.  If the Aussies go 2-0 up in Birmingham (which they will if we play as poorly there as we did at Lord's), then the selectors will need to make changes if we're to save the series - and, importantly, save the cricketing summer.

After all, the Old Trafford Test coincides with the kick-off of the Premier$hite season.  If we go 3-0 down there, then cricket will be relegated to the inside pages for the rest of the summer - and if that happens, it must be seen as a massive failure on the part of the ECB.  I hope it doesn't happen.

Here's to a big improvement in England's fortunes in the next 10 days.

Matt