The EU referendum

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35150356

I see that Michael Heseltine has warned of a Tory "civil war" and that the Tories would be a "laughing stock" if Cameron allowed a free vote for his Cabinet Ministers on this issue.

Funny, I seem to remember Harold Wilson doing exactly that last time around, back in 1975.

Didn't Jeremy Corbyn also allow all Labour MP's a free vote on Syria too?

 

[callan]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35150356

I see that Michael Heseltine has warned of a Tory "civil war" and that the Tories would be a "laughing stock" if Cameron allowed a free vote for his Cabinet Ministers on this issue.

Funny, I seem to remember Harold Wilson doing exactly that last time around, back in 1975.

Didn't Jeremy Corbyn also allow all Labour MP's a free vote on Syria too?

But former Deputy Prime Minister Lord Heseltine said that would make Mr Cameron a global "laughing stock".


A laughing stock?....surely he's that already.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But former Deputy Prime Minister Lord Heseltine said that would make Mr Cameron a global "laughing stock".


A laughing stock?....surely he's that already.

And there was me thinking Cameron was the Tory PM who'd just won a "convincing " electoral victory back in May.

 

[callan]

And there was me thinking Cameron was the Tory PM who'd just won a "convincing " electoral victory back in May.

No, that was the SNP.

 

[londonblue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35150356

I see that Michael Heseltine has warned of a Tory "civil war" and that the Tories would be a "laughing stock" if Cameron allowed a free vote for his Cabinet Ministers on this issue.

Funny, I seem to remember Harold Wilson doing exactly that last time around, back in 1975.

Didn't Jeremy Corbyn also allow all Labour MP's a free vote on Syria too?

Out of interest, what's the difference between that and Corduroy saying he's not convinced of the UK's membership? Isn't he going to have civil war (yet again) within his shadow cabinet?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Out of interest, what's the difference between that and Corduroy saying he's not convinced of the UK's membership? Isn't he going to have civil war (yet again) within his shadow cabinet?

:off topic:

But atm there is clearly a disconnect between the Labour party and the PLP.

I'd expect (and hope) to see some changes in the rulebook after the next Labour party conference which will more fully reflect the new mood in the party.

The Tories however are the party in government and need to decide what their position is vis-à-vis the EU referendum.

 

[londonblue]

:off topic:

But atm there is clearly a disconnect between the Labour party and the PLP.

I'd expect (and hope) to see some changes in the rulebook after the next Labour party conference which will more fully reflect the new mood in the party.

The Tories however are the party in government and need to decide what their position is vis-à-vis the EU referendum.

Don't forget, the MPs have to serve their constituencies. They were voted in under the previous Labour incarnation, and therefore need to serve in that manner.

This is a bigger civil war than the one you're predicting for the tories.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Don't forget, the MPs have to serve their constituencies. They were voted in under the previous Labour incarnation, and therefore need to serve in that manner.

This is a bigger civil war than the one you're predicting for the tories.

The Tories have been at war over the EU ever since Maastricht.It's already cost at least one Tory leader their job (Thatcher) and arguably Major too.

Cameron's going to have to play his cards pretty well to stay in office for a full parliamentary term.

 

[londonblue]

The Tories have been at war over the EU ever since Maastricht.It's already cost at least one Tory leader their job (Thatcher) and arguably Major too.

Cameron's going to have to play his cards pretty well to stay in office for a full parliamentary term.

Camerscum has played it very well over the last 7-8(?) years. You hardly ever hear the tories argue over Europe these days (more's the pity), and yes the referendum may be an issue for them, but it is only one policy.

The Labour party's problems are far more widespread than that, and are far more serious.

Plus Camerscum has said he won't be in charge at the next GE, so I don't think that's a concern for him.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Camerscum has played it very well over the last 7-8(?) years. You hardly ever hear the tories argue over Europe these days (more's the pity), and yes the referendum may be an issue for them, but it is only one policy.

The Labour party's problems are far more widespread than that, and are far more serious.

Plus Camerscum has said he won't be in charge at the next GE, so I don't think that's a concern for him.

If he goes to the nation with a poor offer from Europe then I can see him stepping down if the vote goes towards an exit. That will leave the country with a Gordon Brown scenario which I personally never agreed with the last time. I would prefer an early election after a new Tory leader has been chosen, unlikely but what I would prefer. What I'm reading at the moment doesn't fair well for Cameron but I seriously doubt he will campaign for an exit.

There was something on the radio today suggesting that there needs to be collective government, meaning the entire cabinet must stand behind the PM on whatever he decides on this matter. I don't agree with that as this is going to be a once in a lifetime vote and all MP's, including cabinet and shadow cabinet must be allowed to campaign the way they want without threats or intimidation from any party enforcers. Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35165720

I see former Tory leader William Hague has raised the spectre of another Scottish referendum on independence if GB were to vote in favour of exit.

 

[Uncle Leo]

The Tories have been at war over the EU ever since Maastricht.It's already cost at least one Tory leader their job (Thatcher) and arguably Major too.

Europe didn't cost Major his job. Tony Blair, and the Conservatives having been in power for 18 years, saw to that.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Europe didn't cost Major his job. Tony Blair, and the Conservatives having been in power for 18 years, saw to that.

As I said it was "arguable" .So you're arguing about it-what's new? :winking:

(I'm sure you'll remember the Euro Cabinet *******s remark).

 

[Uncle Leo]

As I said it was "arguable" .So you're arguing about it-what's new? :winking:

(I'm sure you'll remember the Euro Cabinet *******s remark).

It's a forum. Arguing/debating is kind of the point isn't it?

Remember the *******s stuff very well indeed. And come 1997, the Conservatives could have given every voter £20 on polling day and they'd still have got humped.

EDIT. The word we've both used - that shouldn't really be on the swear filter should it? Very much a soft swear word I think.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It's a forum. Arguing/debating is kind of the point isn't it?

Remember the *******s stuff very well indeed. And come 1997, the Conservatives could have given every voter £20 on polling day and they'd still have got humped.

EDIT. The word we've both used - that shouldn't really be on the swear filter should it? Very much a soft swear word I think.

I certainly don't have any problem with it-as long as it's not used directly at someone as an insult.

(Edit.My younger brother, (not Rob Noxious but the Venture Capitalist), used to delight in saying I was a ******* by birth.

Technically correct, as I was born before my parents married).

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I certainly don't have any problem with it-as long as it's not used directly at someone as an insult.

(Edit.My younger brother, (not Rob Noxious but the Venture Capitalist), used to delight in saying I was a ******* by birth.

Technically correct, as I was born before my parents married).

Yeah but we live in such a PC world now don't we - blame the looney left for that :winking:

 

[Uncle Leo]

I certainly don't have any problem with it-as long as it's not used directly at someone as an insult.

(Edit.My younger brother, (not Rob Noxious but the Venture Capitalist), used to delight in saying I was a ******* by birth.

Technically correct, as I was born before my parents married).

And once again, a thread comes round to Barnaby's personal life.

 

[Napster]

Yeah but we live in such a PC world now don't we - blame the looney left for that :winking:

I like PC World. Good customer service.